T. writes:
I’ve been reading your site forever and never thought I would be writing for advice, but here I am. I am 20 weeks pregnant with our first child, and we are not learning the sex. Our surname sounds like Campton but with an “o” instead of the “a”. We are actually very similar in terms of naming style–we each made a long list of favorite names and used the overlapping names as our short list. For a boy we have narrowed to August “Gus” or Felix, and the middle name will likely be my husband’s name (Miles) or his grandfather’s name (George). It’s the girl’s name with which we are struggling. For as long as I can remember, I’ve wanted to name my little girl after my grandmother who helped raise me. Her name is Clara Colleen Co____, and she is called Coco by everyone in her life who doesn’t refer to her as “mom”. We even call her Coco instead of grandma, granny, etc. I’ve always thought our girl would be Clara and my husband was totally on board–we’ve been together since high school and he loves my grandma, and he also liked the name (despite the climbing popularity).
The problem came when I was discussing names one day with her. I didn’t tell her about my plan but we were talking about her name and she said she never really liked the name Clara because it was “weird” to her when she was young, and that she chose to use her middle name (that’s how her nickname came about). I don’t feel like it’s very honoring at this point to use the name my grandma doesn’t like, so on to problem number two: I actually like the name Colleen, but my family is from the rural south and everyone pronounces it with a long “o”–Cole-een. I’m not a fan of that pronunciation at all.
My husband and I have talked about different options for a girl including: 1. Find another name starting with C or Co since our surname starts with Co and call her “Coco”–he likes Colette and I like Corinne, but we don’t LOVE either., 2. Use our favorite girl name (Sylvie, but we also love Mabel) and use Colleen as an honor name in the middle spot. I’m not sold on this idea because of the pronunciation issue. I would want to introduce her with a short “o” sound in Colleen, but I know I would have to be quiet around my family and let them pronounce it the way they always have so as not to hurt feelings/seem pretentious. 3. Scrap the honor name altogether and use Sylvie or Mabel with another middle name that we like. 4. Use Sylvie or Mabel with Clara in the middle spot. I feel like I don’t have a great option in terms of the honor name, but it’s hard to think of letting that go since I’ve wanted to honor her for so long (my husband and I agreed on using the honor middle from his side if the baby is a boy, or on the next child if this one is a girl). HELP!
I suggest an additional option: 5. Have another talk with your grandmother. It doesn’t sound to me as if she’s necessarily saying she doesn’t like her name—it could just be she didn’t like it when she was younger and was telling you that story. My friend’s mother always hated her unstylish, weird name—which is Isabel. She may still hate it now, but my guess is that she feels better about it now that public opinion has done a complete flip. Your grandmother, too, may be telling a story about her name that no longer applies: it’s the story of how she came to go by her middle name, and not necessarily the story of how she still feels now, or how she would feel about the name on a darling little namesake. (My guess is that there is nothing better than a beloved baby for changing someone’s mind about a name.)
I’d also suggest reading the post Baby Boy Harris. In that post, the situation was far more severe: the woman’s father volunteered during her pregnancy that he’d “never forgive her” if they used his name for their baby—which was exactly what they were secretly planning to do. She was very upset, since she loved his name AND loved him, which is a very nice combination for an honor name. She talked with him again, and he was completely sheepish about the whole thing and was thrilled that they wanted to use his name. I think it’s common for people to say silly things, especially if it’s in the back of their minds that they kind of WOULD love a little namesake but they don’t want to presume, and they want to communicate that they’d understand if you didn’t like their names enough to use them.
My guess (and this is the kind of guess I’d be willing to put money on) is that your grandmother would be completely thrilled if you used her name, and that she was just thinking about baby names and talking idly about them. My guess is that even if she still does think of her name as being kind of weird, that if you told her you’d always wanted to name your daughter after her she would be very happy about that. It doesn’t sound to me as if her feelings are anywhere near as strong as the father who deliberately said not to use his name—and look how nicely that turned out.
But if you talk to her and against all my expectations she sincerely doesn’t want you to use her name, then I suggest using Coco as the middle name, since it’s the name your grandmother probably most identifies with. Sylvie Coco lets you use your top-choice girl name plus honor your grandmother with the middle name. Sylvia Coco has a somewhat better flow to my ear (and she could still go by the nickname Sylvie), but I probably wouldn’t let that decide things if I significantly preferred Sylvie, especially if she’ll mostly be known as Sylvie Campton.
Name update! T. writes:
Hi! Just wanted to send an update and thank you to you and your readers for your input on naming our baby. Our baby GIRL was born on February 3rd…3 weeks early! We decided to go with our overall favorite name, and put the honor name in the middle, and after much back and forth stuck with Clara. My grandma was pleased as punch with her new little namesake. Here is a picture of our sweet Sylvie Clara:
I agree that you should approach your grandmother again. I hated my name as a child (it was very uncommon then), but have grown to like it as an adult. You could even talk to her about the rising popularity of Clara as a starting off point. “I was so surprised to hear you say Clara was weird when you were growing up. It’s become quite popular for little girls these days”
Another thought I had would be to change the gender of the namesakes. Since you don’t like Colleen, perhaps you would like Cole for a boy? Even better since the spelling is almost the same, maybe you’d like Collin for a boy. August Collin or Felix Collin. And for your girl name, you could use Georgia or Georgiana as the middle name.
Swistle nails it again! She’s totally right. I would have another conversation with your grandma and see what she says. Most likely she will be thrilled that you’re using Clara.
I also think Clara is the kind of name a girl born now would prefer over Colleen, which is a little dated these days (it sounds very 1970s-early 1980s to me). I don’t know how grandma would react, but you could possibly show her the SSA popularity lists & numbers to give her an idea. There are many more Clara’s than Colleen’s born right now. But, there are not too many to make it overused. It’s a very nice name.
How about Clara Sylvie? I think that’s very beautiful and sounds great with either of your future boy choices. Colleen is a little jarring next to Felix for some reason. They are very different stylistically. Colleen and Gus match a little better– they meet over a kind of shared homespun quality. Clara takes on that same folksy Americana vibe with Gus, but is versatile enough to sound sophisticated and sort of Germanic/Viennese artsy with Felix. (I think Bauhaus and Vienna and Gustav Klimt and Freud somehow when I hear Clara and Felix together– very sophisticated!)
I urge you to go with your original impulse and use Clara, but besides Corrine and Colette, I wanted to suggest Cosima as a potential means of getting to Coco. Though I think Cosima is maybe a little too alliterative with your surname.
Haha once again, couldn’t agree more! (I always read your comments before I type up my response and your thoughts are usually dead on with mine!)
I would definitely have the discussion with your grandma again and let her know you would love to use Clara. I agree that Clara seems like a better choice for today vs Colleen that does feel very late 70s. Like Swistle said, perhaps she didn’t care for her name at the time when she was little (maybe, for her, it was similar to naming your little boy Gary today in a world filled with Williams and Jacobs and Maxs??) but perhaps she cares for it now given the change in naming styles. I would definitely have the conversation before deciding anything.
If she doesn’t like it, then I would go with Sylvie Coco or Mabel Clara. I personally prefer Mabel over Sylvie but both are good options.
Aw, thank you, Kelsey! I’m blushing. :) Also I agree Sylvie Coco would be adorable!
Or if your grandma does still hate her name, maybe you could ask her what she would’ve liked to have been named? Or maybe she could help you think of the perfect C name?
I like Clara much more than Colleen for somebody born in this decade. It also seems to fit in more with your naming style. (Looove the name Felix, by the way.)
I have to agree with everyone, I think that if you break the news to her that you’d like to use her name “if it’s a girl” then she would very likely be flattered and delighted. If not, slipping it in the middle is the best of both worlds. You can use your favourite name Sylvie, honor your grandma in a more subtle way that she might even prefer given her qualms about her name, and you have the option of bestowing the repeating syllable nickname “Vievie” or “Vivie” on your daughter, taking the tradition into a new generation. I lovelovelove the sound of Sylvie Clara Campton with an o!
Best of luck!
I second the suggestion of talking with your grandmother again and explain how the name “feels” now. In her generation currently popular names like Sophia, Emily, or Ava would have sounded dowdy and oldfashioned, while (the now dated) Linda and Beverly were fresh and exciting; it’s all a matter of perspective, IMO … nowadays, Clara is certainly more fashionable than Colleen.
Maybe a twist on Clara — Claire, Clarissa, Claribel, Clarimond, Clarity, Chiara, Clea, Cara — would appeal to you as well?
Full names for Coco — Constance, Cosima, Colombe, Cordelia, Jacoba.
Clara means “bright” — synonym names include Alba, Niamh /Neve, Phoebe, Roxanne, Zara.
Swistle’s suggestion that you talk with your grandma is exactly what I’d recommend. It may be that Clara sounded very dated at the time your grandma was growing up. I’m a “grandma” too , so maybe in the same age range as your grandma, and for me, Clara was the name of a great-aunt — I didn’t know any Claras close to my age. I just looked at Clara’s popularity in SSA stats: peaked at #7 in 1885; in the top 100 through 1938; and steadily on the rise again since about 1990. You might also share with your grandma all the things you like about the name Clara — beginning with it being her given name — and that the name is not seen as outdated any longer.
I have a friend who never liked her name — Ros@lie Nor@ — and always went by a nickname totally different from either of her names. Guess what her daughter her daughter? Nora Rose. My friend was SO PLEASED by that — and now looks at her own name in a more favorable light.
But if it does turn out that you decide to go with a different name, you can’t go wrong with Mabel — a pretty, cute, sweet, old-fashioned name that is s-l-o-w-l-y coming back (not quite in the Top 1000 YET, but gaining every year). I was taken aback when one of my granddaughters said a few years back that Mabel was her favorite name, but the name has grown on my and it’s absolutely darling on my 2-week-old great-granddaughter!
Honestly, IMO you should name your child whatever you want. First name or middle name, your grandma will be so thrilled about her little namesake. Our first girl is named Agnes, a name I loved and which was coincidentally also my husband’s grandmother’s name. She confided that she never liked her name when we made the birth announcement, but she thought is was sweet on a little red-headed baby girl, and she was pleased as punch!
First off, I love your boy names.
Mabel could be cute with either of them: Mabel Colleen or Mabel Clara.
I like August (Gus) and Sylvie together.
Some other similar names:
Collette
Corrine
Corrina
Constance/Connie
Maureen
Justine (I like Justine & Felix)
Cara
Carissa/Carisa
Clarissa
Clarice
Like everyone else, I think it’s worth another talk with your grandmother. But after that talk, you don’t want to use Clara any more, I’d go with one of the names that can be shortened to Coco (Cora maybe?) or use Colleen as a middle. I don’t think pronunciation should be much of an issue for a middle name.
I would definitely talk with your grandmother! I dearly wanted to honor my beloved grandmother if our baby was a girl, but I had it in my head that she had hated her name. Of course, Granny passed away in 2011, and I couldn’t ask her. I thought of using her birthstone, instead (Opal) but then I talked it over with my mom, who reminded me that Granny had really just hated being called Little Ruth, because her mom was also Ruth. And furthermore, my mom said, Granny likely would have been thrilled to be honored that way.
So, we used Granny’s name anyway, and our little Ruth Pe@rl joined us three months ago. We call her Rue.
I love Swistle’s suggestion of using Coco as the middle for the honor name, if your grandmother is not on board with you using Clara. Sylvie Coco! Mabel Coco! It doesn’t get much sweeter than that.
Long time reader, first time commenter….lol. I’m totally currently wondering if you live in my city, Swistle, because my grandmother’s first name is Isabel, and she has always hated it and gone by her middle name. And similarly to this post, my sister just had a baby and wanted to name it after my grandma if it was a girl (it wasn’t). She asked my grandmother about it, and she said that while she never liked the name growing up, she does know it is more popular now (while here middle name is very outdated now) and would be very honored by a granddaughter being named after her.
So yes, definitely talk to her! You never know what she might say :)
Thank you all so much for your input! After reading your responses, I got really excited about talking to my grandmother again. I called my husband to tell him, and he admitted that since we overruled Clara awhile ago, he has completely set his heart on Sylvie (although I am swooning over a previous poster’s idea of Clara Sylvie). Since he is half of the deciding party and it is also my favorite name overall, I think we will probably stick with that for the first name and use the honor in the middle. Now to decide whether to use Clara, Coco, or Colleen in the middle…
If you do go with Sylvie then I second using Coco (as that is what you know her by) or Clara. Colleen seems too late 70s for me and especially if you don’t care for the way others pronounce it… You cant go wrong with Clara or Coco. Sylvie Coco… Soo cute with a little spunk. Plus, I like it next to Felix!
Agree, Sylvie Coco is cool. Still love Clara as first name too both go well with Felix but I think Clara is better with Gus.
I like Sylvie Coco C…ton. After all, Coco is the name you know your grandmother by.
Middle names are important too, especially when they’re honor names. You still might want to tell your grandma that if the baby is a girl, her middle name will be in honor of her and let her choose which of her names she likes best since you’re open to either of her given names or her nickname. Sylvie Coco IS cute — especially for a very young girl, but Sylvie Clara seems more substantial and a better match with the boy’s names you prefer: August or Felix with Miles or George as the middle name.
Sylvie Colleen would be more substantial than Sylvie Coco too, and I don’t think it matters that Colleen is a bit dated or that some of your relatives wouldn’t pronounce it the way you intend since your daughter probably would be known mostly as just “Sylvie”. And if you really love “Coco” as a nickname, Sylvie Colleen would still give you that option, just as your grandma has; you could still call her “Sylvie Coco”. I’m liking that option best:
Your grandma: Clara Colleen Co______________ “Coco”
Your daughter: Sylvie Colleen Co_______________ “Sylvie” (sometimes called “Sylvie Coco”)
Maybe it’s not necessary to discuss this with your grandma, but instead give her this lovely surprise if your baby is a girl.
for what it’s worth, we named our daughter to honor my grandmother and my maiden name. while my grandmother grew up hating her name (ada), so much so she went by mary anne her entire life, we chose it anyway. she gave us a little bit of grief when emilee ada was born — “ada, why did you choose a name like that?!” — all the time with a warm glowing smile on her face. emilee is proud to know that ada comes from her mimi, and i am grateful that we chose to honor my grandmother in this way. even more so as she passed on when bug was just 3 months old.
I had a very similar situation with my first child. My beloved grandfather’s name is Jackson Kenneth and he goes by Ken. I was planning to name my son Jackson and my grandpa heard about it. I never hear a negative word out of his mouth but he said it was a terrible idea and he’d always hated his first name. Hmm, okay. I didn’t like the name Ken enough to use it as a first name, but we ended up naming him Peter Kenneth (Peter was taken from my maiden name Peterson, among other things). Grandpa was very pleased with that. He’s currently 95 and still doing great. I think if I have another son after he has died, I would strongly consider Jackson as a middle name.
Sylvie Clara is absolutely gorgeous! What a beautiful baby and a beautiful name. Congratulations!