Ashley writes:
My name is Ashley and my husband goes by Tony, although his formal name is Mark Anthony. Our last name sounds like Thornbush but starts with a D (and is spelled with the German –sch ending).
After two failed pregnancies, we are having our first baby, a boy, due January 8th, and I’d love to hear an outside perspective on our choices. Our son’s first name will be Mark, in honor of my husband’s father who passed away six months ago. Like my husband, though, he will not go by his first name. He will be definitely be known (by us, at least – he can switch it up later in life, if he chooses) by his middle name. We’ve narrowed down the final two:
1) August – probably call him Gus as a pet name around the house, but definitely introduce him as August.
2) Osborn – this is my grandfather’s last name (my mom’s maiden), and he passed away about two months ago. We’d introduce him as Oz/Ozzy if we went with this name.
My husband really likes Osborn, and while I’m warming to it more and more, I’m not sure I can completely commit. Is Oz too off-beat? I’d consider myself a pretty quirky person but I don’t want to saddle my children with names that are a little too far off the beaten path. On the other hand, August doesn’t necessarily knock me out.
Other names we seriously considered:
Arlo (gets a little mushed together when you say it with the first name, though we realize you wouldn’t say the two together very often)
Owen (the most common name on our list, though we’d likely use the nickname Mo as a play off the two names)
Other names that we considered but didn’t get as far:
West
Sullivan
Adler
Theodore
Montgomery
AltonAs for other details, we plan on having at least one more child (two if we’re lucky!), and we definitely hadn’t come very close to deciding on a girl’s name.
Thanks for your help!!
I prefer, in general, to stick to a “one quirk per name” limit, or actually I guess it’s more like two. That is, if a child is going to go by his or her middle name exclusively, that’s one quirk. Or if a child is going to have a very unusual name with a strong association, that’s one quirk. Going by (1) the nickname of (2) a very unusual and strongly-associated (3) middle name, in a situation where the nickname adds even more to the association, seems like a lot of quirks for one name. It’s not that you can’t do it, and plenty of people do it all the time; it’s only that if you’re asking me, and you are, it exceeds my own personal limit for what I would personally want to cope with if it were my own name. But it helps in this case that we’re all already familiar with the concept of a son having to use his middle name because his first name is already being used by another family member.
A character in Buffy the Vampire Slayer first drew my attention to the appeal of the name Oz. It’s an extremely adventurous choice, strongly associated with The Wizard of Oz, but I think it could work. It helped that the character Oz was cool and cute and confident—but on the other hand, that makes me fret a bit about how well the name would work on a child who turned out less cool/confident. Still, as you’ve mentioned, he could use Mark instead.
Using Oz/Ozzy WITH OSBORN, however, brings the singer Ozzy Osbourne so vividly and immediately to mind, it’s startling. If we had more associations, it would help tremendously—but right now Ozzy Osbourne is still dominating it. And his image is so dark: the various addictions, biting the heads off doves and bats, accusations of satanism, the band name Black Sabbath.
“It’s a family name” can save many an unusual choice, however, and Ozzy Osbourne’s surprising harmlessness/affability on his recent reality show may help as well. Plus, he won’t really be “Ozzy-short-for-Osborn,” he’ll just be Ozzy or Oz; it would in fact be LESS of an association than if his first name were Osborn.
I think if it were me, though, I’d come down on the side of saving Osborn to be the middle name of a child who would go by his first name. When I think of it tucked away there, it gives me a cool/fun feeling instead of the worry that it’s too darkly cool a name for the average manager, bank teller, or teacher.
August seems like a great choice. But with so much time left, are you sure these are your two finalists? You say August doesn’t knock you out, and you’re only just “warming to” Osborn. It sounds too soon to be calling those the final two.
If you like the sound of Ozzy, Crosby might be a nice option.
Or Desmond, with the nickname Desi/Dezzie.
Or Ezra.
Or Ezekiel, with the nickname Zeke.
Or Isaac, with the nickname Ike.
If you like Mo, I wonder if you’d like Moses? Moses has a less dark and more diluted set of associations (Moses from the Bible, Grandma Moses, Moses Lake, Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin’s son, etc.). Mark Moses Thornbush, called Mo. It’s no more quirky than Mark Osborn called Oz—and less so because the associations are more positive/diluted, and because Mark and Mo both start with M.
Or you could do your M.O. idea, but with a name other than Owen. Mark Oakley. Mark Oberon. Mark Odin. Mark Orion. Mark Oscar. Mark Otto. Or of course Mark Osborn, but calling him Mo instead of Ozzy.
If you’d like to honor your grandfather, is his first name useable? or his middle name? I do like the idea of using a name from your side of the family, since the child’s first name (and also his surname?) will be from his father’s side.
Have you committed to the idea of using Mark as the first name, even though you don’t want to use the name in a daily way? Perhaps Mark could be the middle name, freeing you to consider more options for the first name. I love Arlo Mark Thornbush-with-a-D, and Arlo seems like a great choice for “quirky but not too far off the beaten path.”
Owen and Arlo make me think of:
Eamon
Hugo
Leo
Milo
Nolan
Otto
Rohan
Ronan
Roland
Tobias
Name update! Ashley writes:
I’m so excited to announce that on Tuesday, January 7th, our baby boy, Mark Osborn Dornbusch, made his entrance into the world! Ozzie (notice we changed the spelling to the -ie ending) is definitely a handful, but we obviously love him to pieces. :-)
I want to thank everyone for their valuable feedback. As it turns out, the pull of the double honor name was just too much to resist. I know there was some concern that giving him a first name he wouldn’t use would be a pain, but that was always a non-negotiable in our book. My husband has been dealing with that his whole life and has no complaints; it’s simply a tradition we already knew that we would continue. There was also some concern about the Ozzy Osbourne connection, but after some discussion, that felt like a generational association that would fade with time. Overall, we’ve had really great reactions from people who hear his name, much like the majority of the commenters. Oz for the win!
Attached is a picture of our little meatball. :-)
It’s so rare that I find myself disagreeing with Swistle, I’m always a little surprised when it happens. When I read the title of the post, before reading all the details, I thought August/Gus would be my favorite. I think both names are pretty cool, but August has been a long time favorite of mine.
However, after reading the details, I love the idea of using your grandfather’s name. Having 2 namesakes, both for people who passed away so soon before the baby’s birth, really ups the sentiment factor for me. I know a couple of kids who go by nicknames for their middle names because dad goes by the first & it’s never been a problem for them. People accept it pretty easily, explaining that his middle name is also a family name doesn’t seem like too much of an additional hassle to me.
I also think Oz/Ozzy are lovely nicknames and I don’t associated them with only with Ozzy Osbourne. Oz is also the wizard, the character from Buffy & a nickname for Australia. Certainly not as many associations as say, something like Mike, but the connection to the singer is dilute enough that it doesn’t bother me.
Mo made me think of Abe/Abram, maybe you’d like them?
Oh-and Ozzie Smith & Ozzie Nelson are other famous people with the name, so the “ie” spelling is also an option if you want it.
I think Ozzy is perfect. It’s cute, has personal significance to you, and Osborn is too common of a last name to be associated with just one person. I think it’s even better with Mark as the legal fast name…if your son ends up being a shy quiet kid who’d rather not having an attention-getting name, he always has Mark as an option.
August or Gus Thornbush is ok, but I’m not sure I like the repeating “us” sound.
See that’s interesting, I was more immediately bothered by the rhyminess of “Osborn-thorn”. When I read the title I was thinking I’d definitely side with August. But I have such a soft spot for family names. Something being a family name excuses a lot in my book. If he will be known almost exclusively as “Ozzy/Oz Thornbush” then I think I would be totally on board. Oz is quite possibly the best nickname ever. If you would love it despite your fear that it’s too out there, I can honestly say I don’t find it weird at all. More adorably, “wish I’d thought of it” quirky. Oz! Love it.
If you’re fishing for other options still, I think Tobin would make the perfect addition to your list. Mark Tobin Thornbush with a D. He could go by Toby.
I LOVE Osborn! Such a nice tribute and honor name!! And I disagree with Swistle (!!?! is that even allowed? I almost never disagree with her!) I didn’t even think of the Ozzy Osbourne/Black Sabbath connection. And I really think that “it was my grandfather’s name” is a good enough explanation if you do a quizzical or disapproving look/comment. And spelling it with an -ie (Ozzie) would further distance the connection, i think.
My son goes by the (unusual) nickname of his middle name because he & his father share the same first name, which his father goes by; while his first name is OBVIOUSLY an honor name, so is the middle name, which we call him a nickname of, an unusual (but valid) nickname. SO, this is a situation that Swistle has considered in the first paragraph as TOO QUIRKY, but it has worked out just fine for us. My son knows his entire name; he thinks it’s cool that he shares names with his dad & grandfather (and uncle!), but he’s also glad to have his OWN name (NN of middle). It is honestly more difficult explaining it to you here than it ever has been using the names. So I have to remember to say his given first name when I call the doctor’s office. He is 6, and I’ve never considered it a hardship. ALL THAT SAID, I think August and Osborn and equally great choices! And with August, he’d have the same initials as his father. OR if you used Osborn, you’d be able to choose whether you wanted to call him Oz/Ozzy or Mo. Win, win.
I love Auggie as a nn for August, and would choose that myself. Osborn is just not a first name to me personally, but if it means so much to you, then go for it. I do expect you will get a lot of Ozzy Osbourne references.
I think Osborn is a great middle name option with great nicknames…love Oz or Ozzie! Especially love it because it’s an honor name! Mark Osborn Thornbush aka Ozzie :) Love! I like the name August too, but not sure of the flow with Mark. Good luck!
I’m firmly with Swistle on this one! I would not want the Ozzy Osbourne connection.
A tough one, because I did think immediately of Ozzy Osbourne, but the double family name is appealing. I wonder if calling him Oz would solve it.
I know a child, age 3, with the first name Oswald, which is his mother’s maiden name. He goes by Oz or Ozzy. It’s a great name and until reading this post it hadn’t occurred to me to associate Ozzy with Ozzy Osbourne. I haven’t heard of any issues with the nickname.
I’m with Swistle. I don’t think Osborn is out of the question, but I would reserve it for a later child (and I might prefer it in the middle name spot, but I could be swayed on that).
And COME. ON. Just look at those suggestions she threw out for you! I’m just DYING to know a little boy named Crosby. I really, really wish I could FORCE you to use that, I love it so much for you. My second choice of all the wonderful ones listed, is Oakley. … But I also really like the suggestion of using Mark in the middle name spot, if that’s an option, and that really opens up so many other options.
This was such a fun post to read and I sooooo hope you’ll update us!
I really like Oz, but Ozzy-for-Osborn makes me think of the poor bats and doves as well – an association I would not want.
I also wanted to ask, do you have German roots? (Asking because of your German last name.) If so, August is a hard name to wear in Germany. August is often the name of clowns, so it has a “silly” connotation.. maybe something to keep in mind if, in fact, you do have German roots or if there is a possibility that little August might, I don’t know, end up spending time in Germany at some point in his future.
My favorites are really Oz and Gus. I think they work by themselves too, since Mark is a commonly known and accepted first name, and don’t just have to be the middle name’s nicknames.
Good luck! :)
Is anyone else have pronunciation problems between the middle/given name choices and the surname? The “t” ending of August really runs into the “D” beginning of the surname for me, and the “-born” ending of Osborn rhymes with the first syllable of the surname in a way that I find unpleasant.
I don’t know about the Ozzy Osborn connection because I don’t really watch TV…but if others say it is an overwhelming connotation for the name, then I’d say, why risk it? I like the family connection, but not the clash with the surname or the baggage of a controversial media figure with a distinctive name.
If you are 100% sure you won’t use Mark in daily life, I think it would be preferable to put it in the middle place. That spares the future baby a lifetime (or childhood, at least) of correcting teachers, forms, etc.
What was your grandfather Osborn’s first name? Is it a complete non-starter stylistically? Because if it was something acceptable, I think that would be a nicer way of honoring than a surname…but that’s just my personal take on it.
My favorite of your selections is by far Arlo. I think Arlo is a wonderful name, especially with your surname. I don’t even mind Mark Arlo. The flow is fine.
What about Arlo Mark Osborn Thornbush, or Mark Arlo Osborn Thornbush? Those would be my top two choices.
Good luck!
“Is anyone else have pronunciation problems between the middle/given name choices and the surname? The “t” ending of August really runs into the “D” beginning of the surname for me, and the “-born” ending of Osborn rhymes with the first syllable of the surname in a way that I find unpleasant.”
Yes, after three days of mulling this over, this is what I keep coming back to. Especially since every grown up I know who goes by their middle name uses an initial for their first name–J. Benjamin Woot…..; D. James McConn…..etc. So I’m aware that in the long run this little guy could become M. Osborn “D”ornbush. Some people love this kind of repetitive sound, I’m just not one of them, and think you might want to think it through lest you discover too late that you’re not one of them either. Based only on this constraint, I’d favor August slightly over Osborn.
Me, keeping the sound of your surname in mind, I think you could find even better than Gus or Oz and still have a snappy, modern little nickname.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with some of the above readers about some difficult pronunciations/flow between the names Osborn and August with the last name. Even though they are going by their middle name, I’m assuming that that name with act as a first name (example… my mom goes by her middle name, so on her drivers license it just has her middle name and her last name) so we do need to consider flow between the “given” name and the last. This is the pits cuz I LOVE Osborn. I love love love the nn Oz or Ozzy. So cute on a little guy and a quirky and fun nn for a teen. What about Oswald? Unfortunately this takes away from the family name, but the flow is better and you still have Oz as a nn? I also love August with the nn Gus or Auggie. (both these names happen to be on our short list if we have another boy). I’m just not sure if it could work with the last name.
Is it August that you like or is it the Gus? Why not just use Gus? That eliminates the tongue-tie with the last name and when if you look on the social security database, August was ranked #333 where as Gus hasn’t been in the top 1000 in over 30 years. I realize that a lot of these “augusts” are likely called Gus as a nn, but it would be neat to just have a Gus??? Another way around the flow with the last name, instead of August what about Augustus?
I personally LOVE Arlo. It’s a great choice. It’s different and quirky but still not too out there. It flows better if you switch it to the first name, Arlo Mark… but like you mentioned, you don’t commonly say the first and middle names together anyways, so I wouldn’t be too worried about it.
What about Guthrie? You could have Gus as a nn.
I also like Oscar or Ottis or Otto. This still keeps with the M.O. initials leaving that line of nn open as well.
Keep us posted! I think there are a ton of good options for you!
If you like the sound of both Mo and Oz and the feeling of Ezra… do you like Boaz? He could go by Bo, AND Mark Boaz “Thornbush” sounds both distinctive and attractive. With the name Boaz, you could even call him Oz!
Great taste in names, by the way. And congratulations on your wonderful son; what a blessing!
I think the issue isn’t with the name Oz/Ozzy but with the name Oz being short for Osbourn. People will eventually ask what Oz/Ozzy is short for and “Oz short of Osbourn” is only a a small jump to “Ozzy Osbourn.” What kid/person want’s to be associated with a bat eating drugged out rock star (even if it’s a vague connection)? I think Ozzy Osbourn is famous enough (combined with his wife and kids) that a lot of people will make the connection. I wouldn’t want that for myself. To me, it would be like having three daughters and naming them Kim, Kourtney and Khloe. What about the name Bo as an alternative nickname?
I think the name August seems perfect. The short form, Gus, has the same short charm as Oz but without any hassle. You could also use Augustus. Same goes for Isaac turned Ike.
Mark August (Gus)
Mark Isaac (Ike)
Good Luck!
*short for
What about Cosmo nn. Mo? Or I guess you could do Oz/Ozzie.
Angus would also get you the nn. Gus, and I actually prefer that to August!
I loooove Oz. I was wondering what you think of Oscar nn Oz? Oscar Mark Thornbush-with-a-D?
I know a family who have an Oscar (Oz, although not exclusively), an Angus (Gus) (and a Gemma) which made me think of it for you. WDYT? Oscar is a fantastic name but not quite so ‘out-there’, with the awesome nn Oz/Ozzy still.
There’s also Oswald.
If you’re not loving August, but loving Gus (which I do too); there’s also:
Angus
Fergus
Augustin/Augustus
Mingus
Ferguson
Best of luck!
My grandfather was called Gus from childhood and his name was Graham – is there another G name you like? In Australia there are a lot of Gus/Gussy who are named Angus.
I tend to agree with the idea that it will be hard to enforce a nickname of a middle name as what you call him. It seems easier to just have the nickname as the middle name straight up – he will still have a formal first name to fall back on if he needs it.
I love Oz… I think it’s cute, accessible, and off-beat. (I also adore the aforementioned Buffy character so that probably has a lot to do with it.) Ozzy Osbourne isn’t as strong a connection to me… ten years ago he probably would’ve been, but he’s faded into the background of my mind now, and when I think of him it’s with a shrug.
Also, I think if you introduce him as Oz, there’s no reason for anyone to make the connection. And if someone asks his full name, you/he can say, “Mark Osbourn” and explain the family associations. AND if he decides later in life that he hates the name, because of Ozzy Osbourne or any other reason, it’s super-easy for him to switch to going by Mark. So this is one case where I feel like the two quirks help alleviate each other somewhat.
I have to say that the name Osborne with nn Ozzy immediately brought to mind Ozzy Osbourbe, the bats, & his MTV mumblings. Though I also thought of Ozzie Smith. I do love Crosby, love it!
Yes – I think that’s the problem I have with it. Love the nn Oz and Ozzy, but once you hear its short for Osborne, the Ozzy Osbourne connection is too strong. I like the name Oswald as suggested by another commenter, but then you lose the family connection… hmmm tough call. As an aside, my brother-in-law’s nn is “Mo”, short for Malcolm.
Hi everyone! I don’t even know if I’m allowed to be responding to my own question, but… :-)
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the great comments. You have given us some really good food for thought and some really great encouragement as well.
I just wanted to address two things:
1) Unfortunately, none of my grandpa’s other names work for us. His first name was Ned, which I like but my husband does not (and the two single-syllable names together seem awkward), and his middle name was Delmont, which I actually also like but would never pair with our last name (I don’t enjoy the repeated D sound).
2) Several of you mentioned Oscar, which made me laugh because that is the name of the person I dated before my husband so clearly that’s not an option. :-)
Again, thanks for all of your thoughtful responses!
I know a guy named Austin who goes almost exclusively by Auzzy. Could you get the best of both worlds with August nn Auzzy?
It occurs to me that you could get Gus from
Marcus/Markus, if you’re comfortable altering the honor name slightly. Marcus Osborne, nn Gus.
Isn’t Ned a form of Edward? Mark Edward, nn Teddy, is pretty winning.
I love both options (considered a long name to get Oz for my son) but ended up going with Isaac. Then right away big sister called him Izze which I never considered as a nn (thought perhaps Ziggy because he is Isaac E. or Ike which HDTV liked and perhaps one day he will go by?) and it just stuck. Now he goes almost exculsively by Iz or Izze so Isaac might be another contender? Good luck!
I love August! I think it’s great!
But I also wanted to question if you’ve totally thought it through about intentionally naming him a first name you don’t intend to use. There have been recent posts about it, with all of those who have experience with being called by our middle names weighing in. I think you should be able to find them by searching on Swistle’s site. I just had a great idea that this topic could be linked to in the side bar, Swistle! It is something that comes up often enough.
Someone wrote in recently about doing what you’re planning to do (purposefully naming a child intending to use their middle name) and after reading all of our stories of hassle and complication, they changed their mind and put the honor name in the middle!
I think the middle spot is a great honor for your father-in-law. August Mark or even Osborn Mark is nice.
Ashley, I think it is fine that you replied and the feedback is helpful. Since your husband as lived with a first name different than the name he goes by all his life, I think you both have already considered the benefits and drawbacks of using that approach with your son.
You are definitely right that Mark Ned doesn’t work. And Mark Delmont D…..bush if your son is going to go by his mn won’t work either. Because of the honor factors, I think I would go with Mark Osbourn D..bush and introduce him as Ozzy Ozzy D. bush.
I am in agreement with a previous poster in that I disagree with Swistle on this one and that is not a common thing. I think either August or Osborn is a great option but particularly love Osborn/Ozzy. I think there was some contradiction in terms of suggesting that Mark Osborn presents too many quirks but then came back with Mark Moses (Mo) or Mark Orion (Mo).
I also think that the Ozzy Osborne association is a little dated. In fact, most recently the Osborne brand has been quite positive as she noted.
Good luck with your decision! Your son is going to have a fantastic name whichever direction you choose to go!
Does that seem contradictory to you? I will tell you how it seems to me: I started by giving my personal opinion of the name Osborn with the nickname Ozzy, as asked, but then proceeded with the rest of the letter as if it were the parents’ opinions of the name that actually mattered—because that’s how it actually is. I’m working on the assumption that they’re not going to say, “Oh, ONE SINGLE PERSON thinks she might personally prefer not to have this name? Well, then, it’s OFF THE LIST! Let’s go with her preferences rather than our own!” This is how I generally handle questions; otherwise what I’d be doing is giving each set of parents the same exact same list of my own personal list of favorite names and calling it a day.
Furthermore, as I mentioned, Moses is a different situation: there is no decades-of-fame celebrity known as Mo Moses, which removes one element of quirk; and the name Moses, while quirky, has more diluted and positive associations. Then I went on to give more suggestions I thought would fit the parents’ tastes, since they are the ones choosing the name. For example, M.O. = Mo was their own suggestion, so I added more options for getting to that. Does this make more sense now?
I am also in the odd position of disagreeing with Swistle for the very first time. I never thought of Ozzy Osbourne, and even if I had, unless your social group is familiar with him and his antics (for lack of a better word), who really cares? And, Ozzy Osbourne is actually proof that it works, because Ozzy is not his first name (John Michael Osbourne, for the curious), it’s a nickname that he made famous.
I have a friend who just named his son Ozzie, no formal name. Since I am against nicknames as names, I suggested that he name him Osborn or Oswalt, to give the child a fallback. I definitely support you using that name and think Mark Osbourn is a terrific choice. I think Oz/Ozzy is an adorable nickname and fully worth considering.
Sorry, Swistle…guess it’s true that no one can actually bat a thousand.
When people disagree about a baby name, that doesn’t mean one is right and the other is wrong; it only means they have different opinions about something—and baby naming is almost completely about opinions. If I say I personally probably wouldn’t name a child Osborn and call him Ozzy because I don’t like the Ozzy Osbourne association, but you say the Ozzy Osbourne connection would never have occurred to you and you see nothing wrong with it anyway, neither one of us is “right” or “wrong”—any more than if one of us likes the name Margaret and the other of us doesn’t.
Also, we agree that Oz/Ozzy is a great nickname.
I am married to an Oz. His middle name is Oswell (family name) but he goes exclusively by his middle name as his first name is his Dad’s name. His family calls him Ozzie and I find it adorable, although I only call him Oz. As a child he was a bit of a nerd that grew into a wild child, and now he’s a professional- he covered all areas and he claims his name hasn’t been a disadvantage at any of these stages.
He says he was teasted with “The Wizard of Oz,” but not Ozzy Osbourn. I agree with Swistle though, it would jump to my mind if I heard “Ozzy, short for Osbourn.”
I, too, would immediately think of Ozzy Osbourne if I was introduced to a child with the middle name Osbourne going by Ozzy, and would assume the parents were huge fans who chose the name for that reason. The people commenting that they wouldn’t make the association might be younger? (I’m 40). It’s not just the name Ozzy (though he is the Ozzy I’d think of) but the fact that it would be short for Osbourne that would lead me to the assumption that the connection was intentional. But it sounds like many people here say they wouldn’t have the same reaction, so maybe younger generations won’t make the connection.
I have no idea who Ozzy Osbourne is. (I’m 23, born and raised in the Midwest, and don’t watch a lot of TV. So it could be a generational thing or could be a personal lack of cultural literacy thing.) My first association would be the character Oz in Buffy (whose full name was Daniel Osbourne–random nerd trivia), and he was my favorite character, so I’d think it was kind of awesome.
What about Isaac, with the nickname “Izzy”? That gets you close to “Ozzy” without all of the Ozzy Ozbourne and Wizard of Oz…