Jessica writes:
I’m hoping you can provide some insight for our little baby girl due at the end of March, 2011.
My favorite name since I was in high school and read “The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood” has been Vivian.
Thanks to Miss Jolie, I am nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs about using it!
I very much understand Angelina’s love of “Vivienne,” it’s gorgeous, voluptuous, sultry, womanly, classic and all around uber-fem.
However…I (as most people) do not want my daughter to be known as “Vivian P.”
My husband thinks my fears are invalidated. That, just because a celebrity has used it, doesn’t mean every other woman in our small town of 7,500 will use it.
I’m just not sure. Is Vivian destined to be the next Isabella?
I’m a Jessica and was born at a time when Jessica was all the rage.
Though, I was only one of three in my school. (Validating my husband’s argument.)
Our other favorite is Caroline.
Thank you oh so much for your time.
In situations like this, I rely on the Social Security Administration. First let’s look at what’s been happening with Vivian:
(screenshot from SSA.gov)
The first Ya-Ya book was published in 1996. But it’s tricky to figure out what impact it had, isn’t it? The name Vivian had already started an abrupt rise, going from #502 in 1987 to #294 in 1993. It stayed in the high 200s / low 300s for a decade without seeming much affected by the book, and then in 2002 (the year the movie version came out) abruptly started another rise, a rise that brought it as high as #164 in 2009.
To me, what this looks like is the name coming back into style on its own (the name was last in the Top 100 in 1911-1934, so it’s due for another turn in the next few years), but given a shove by an author and a movie—and an additional shove by the birth of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt’s daughter Vivienne in 2008.
Now let’s take a look at what’s happened with Vivienne:
(screenshot from SSA.gov)
I had it set to look in the last 30 years, but Vivienne has only been in the Top 1000 in one of those years: 2009. Which meant spending some time with the non-Top-1000 forms. Here’s how many new baby girls were named Vivienne in the U.S. each year (it’s a little hard to adjust to this “higher number is more” thing when we’re accustomed to the “lower number is more” of the ranking system):
2009: 561
2008: 227
2007: 151
2006: 111
2005: 120
2004: 94
2003: 109
2002: 70
2001: 63
2000: 50
1999: 65
1998: 36
1997: 33
1996: 23
1995: 26
1994: 32
1993: 19
1992: 20
1991: 20
1990: 23
1989: 16
1988: 9
1987: 16
1986: 11
1985: 9
1984: 6
1983: 15
1982: 10
(That’s probably further back than we needed to go, but when the numbers went so low I kept waiting to get down to nothing.) In this case it looks more to me as if the book in 1996 had an impact. Perhaps people loved the name Vivian but didn’t like the look of it and went looking for a fresher spelling? Or perhaps it’s coincidence and the name was going up anyway just like Vivian. It sure looks like the movie in 2002 had an effect, and then Vivienne Jolie-Pitt had an even bigger effect in 2008.
And now let’s compare this to Isabella:
(screenshot from SSA.gov)
Isabella appeared in the Top 1000 in 1990, in the Top 100 in 1998, in the Top 10 in 2004, and at Number 1 in 2009. Vivian doesn’t look like that. Vivian’s been walking around in the Top 1000 all along. And Vivienne DOES sort of look like that—but it’s more like the 1991 Isabella: not enough information to know what it will do next. Plenty of names appear in the Top 1000, shoot up several hundred rankings—and then stay there, never making it even to the Top 100, let alone the Top 10. Having the 2010 numbers would help a lot, but those won’t be out until May—by which time your Vivian or Caroline will already be here.
Here is my guess, and it is PURE GUESS, as in “your guess is as good as mine”: my guess is that the name Vivian will follow names such as Evelyn and Lillian, but NOT names such as Isabella. I think it will make the Top 50, but that it won’t be a super-mega-hit. That’s my GUESS. But I am as wrong as the rest of us when it comes to predicting name trends, and perhaps we will all laugh merrily at this post a decade from now.
For further comparison, let’s look at Caroline:
(screenshot from SSA.gov)
This shows what I often say about name perceptions: if you’d asked me to answer without looking, I would have thought Caroline was racing up the ranks, because I feel like I’m “suddenly hearing it everywhere.” But I’m completely wrong: it’s just hanging around in a non-scary-trend fashion, not even up to the Top 50. And do I know a single baby named Caroline? Er….one. On a blog, not in my non-internet circle. It’s just that it seems like so many people have it on their lists, which can give a false sense of commonness.
Okay! So what have we got? We’ve got Caroline, already in the Top 100 but not looking like it’s moving around much: nice and stable. And we’ve got Vivian, less common but much MUCH less stable. If I were choosing solely on popularity, then, I’d choose Caroline: not only doesn’t it make me nervous that it’s going to make a mad rush for Number 1, but also it’s so classic and traditional it really couldn’t be trendy even if it DID hit Number 1.
But if you want my GUESS, I think you’ll also be okay if you choose Vivian. And, it is your FAVORITE. And it sounds to me as if your only hesitation is the commonness, and you’re talking yourself out of that even without my help—though I can add my usual lines about how even if you name her something statistically VERY unlikely to be duplicated she can nevertheless end up with another in her class (like in my son’s class, where there are three Noahs even though statistically for their year of birth there should be one Noah per eight classrooms), and how having a year or two of Vivian P. isn’t the worst thing anyway (and maybe instead they could be Vivian and Vivi, or Vivi Rose and Vivi Louise, or some other solution).
Would it help at all to have a poll? Let’s have one over to the right to see what everyone else thinks: go for the less-stable long-term-favorite? or the more-stable option? [Poll closed; see results below.]
Thank you for such a detailed post, Swistle! I am currently pregnant and I like both names, which does mean something when you say that names seem more popular when they are on someone’s list!
I voted for Vivian because its your long term favorite. I think you should pick the name you always pictured your daughter having, exclusive of any outside influence. I did not have a common name, so I cannot totally understand your point of view, but my sister is a Jessica in a class full of several Jessicas, and I think if she becomes pregnant, she will name her daughter a name she likes, regardless of her experiences of being Jessica D. (BTW, I think she will pick Ella… so likely her daughter will be in a similar situation as she was, but NOT in the same boat as your baby Vivian!)
What if Jessica was considering Vivienne (instead of Vivian)? Would you have the same response, or does that spelling lead to a different conclusion?
I love the name Caroline, but you love Vivian and have for a long time. I always vote for the name you’ve loved for years.
And guessing what kids will be in your kids’ class years from now is a crap shoot. My son Noah (Swistle’s example name) has never had another Noah in class with him. You just can’t predict it.
My baby! You know my baby named Caroline!! I obviously love the name and know it was the right choice – all the reactions we’ve gotten have been great. I’m surprised it’s stayed so steady on the Social Security chart since people tell me all the time “Oh that was our second choice!”
But Vivian is also lovely and can be Vi or Viv or Vivi or Vivian depending on how old she is and what fits. And like Swistle has pointed out before, even really popular names in 2008 and 2009 aren’t popular to the level Jessica was back in the 70’s. So if it’s your favorite I would definitely use Vivian.
Anonymous- Not sure! That one’s too hard to tell. You can see the info above: the number of girls named Vivienne in 1982 until 2009, plus its ranking in 2009—but it’s too hard to tell where it’s going from here, similar to Isabella in 1991. If Jessica were considering Vivienne, we’d also have to discuss if it was an alternate spelling of Vivian or if it was the French pronunciation, and also the issue of how “Vivienne” seems more like copying the Jolie-Pitts than “Vivian” does—so many issues to consider!
Suzanne- Yes, it’s your Caroline!
Oh I can SO relate because I have loved the name Vivian for soooo long – Gone With the Wind is my all-time favorite movie and I loved Vivian Leigh. Then my mom’s friend named her child Vivian. It knocked the wind out of me…pun intended. The Jolie-Pitt thing double upset me because I have also loved the name Knox since the movie Dead Poets Society. They were my top names!! How does this happen? Anyway – I say through caution to the wind (what is it with me and wind metaphors?) and go with Vivian. Such a beautiful name.
(1) Vivian
(2) Next time I have a question, I think I know whom I should ask!
Use Vivian! It was our top girls name this time out of three (turns out it will be a boy so we won’t be adding to the trend) and I just don’t see it rising to the top any time soon. It certainly does feel more trendy than Caroline, but I doubt it will become popular enough to fill classrooms any time soon.
Vivian! I know it’s only anecdotal, but I know a zillion little Carolines (say age 10 and younger) and only two Vivians.
I have a Vivienne! She is 2 months old. I had earmarked the name back in summer of 08 (I was pregnant with a baby…turned out he was a boy and he’s Jonathan). Anyway, I was stressed about Vivienne/Vivian becoming super popular, but I think the uptick has helped my husband accept the name. At first he thought it was too uncommon, and how he thinks it’s common enough to be good, but uncommon enough to be cool.
NO ONE has said, “Oh, you named your daughter after the Jolie baby” or anything like that. Or anything, really. I get a lot of, “That’s different” or “You don’t hear that name every day” or “That’s pretty!”
My daughter is named Vivienne and she’ll be three this month. We have yet to meet another Vivienne. Although, my son did have a Vivian in his second grade class but I believe she has moved away.
I completely agree with you. Not one person has made any mention of the Jolie-Pitt baby and we also receive wonderful compliments on her name. My husband and I think we definitely picked a good one for our daughter.
Go with Vivian. It’s beautiful and it’s your favorite.
Congratulations and good luck!
I should add that we pronounce it “Vivian” and call her Vivie for short. We just like the Vivienne spelling.
Another alternative, and the actual spelling used in Divine Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood, is Vivianne. I assumed when reading the book that it would be pronounced Vivian, but in the movie they called her Vivi-Anne.
But to make it a little less common, you could spell it Vivianne and pronounce it Vivian. Is Caroline your back-up because of another favorite ya-ya, Caro? :P Caro was my fav. when reading the books!!
I say go with Vivian (whichever spelling you like) if your heart says that. Sometimes you just have to take the leap and go for the name. You can’t overthink it. Or you’ve already thought about it enough, so you just have to do it.
Nobody really knows the future for sure; and Vivian isn’t in the very top names right now, so even if it picks up, she won’t be the exact same age as a bunch of other Vivians.
Incidentally, Vivien Leigh from GWTW is spelled “Vivien”…I personally like that spelling best.
As far as the Jolie-Pitts go…you don’t hear too much about Vivienne in the news…mostly Shiloh.
But both Vivian and Caroline are beautiful and congratulations!
Ask yourself how you would feel if you didn’t pick Vivian because you feared it would become trendy and then that didn’t happen? Would you be bummed? I would take the chance and go with Vivian since it is the name you picked years ago and your husband seems to be on board with it.
Please oh please use Vivian! I love that name (I like Vivienne, pronounced with the stressed -enne), and I ADORE the nickname Vivi, but because of our surname, it’s just not a feasible choice for us. Let me live vicariously through you!!
But no, in all seriousness, I think Vivian is the best choice for you. It may be rising in popularity more, but for some reason I feel like Caroline seems so much more… I don’t know, tired? For example, if I met a Caroline and a Charlotte, and you asked me to pick out the more inventive or fresh name, I would undoubtedly pick Charlotte, despite it being in the top ten. You see Carolines of all ages nowadays, from grandmas to mothers to newborn babies, so that makes it SEEM like it’s everywhere. Vivian, while it may be climbing the charts a bit, still seems surprising and new, and even a little daring. I say go with your favorite!
I was just found this post by searching for how Vivienne Pitt’s existence was affecting the popularity of the name Vivian, and actually have a tidbit to contribute to this discussion. By odd coincidence, my name is Jessica (I was born in 1973, slightly before its huge popularity) and my 10 year old is named Vivian. Thankfully she’s still the only Vivian I know, but something odd has happened: an amazing number of acquaintances in our small town call HER Jessica and ME Vivian. I guess they think Jessica is a name for a kid :P I still love the name Vivian though, and if I had it to do over, I wouldn’t have changed a thing.
I know this is waaay late in the game but I hope you picked Vivian! The name I had picked out for either a boy or a girl was Jonah. I was dead set. My mother in law suggested naming her Vivian (after her mother) in my 9th month. I should also point out that my MIL had already named HER daughter Vivian and SHE happens to be MY wife. We all joke now that my MIL must not know any other names etc. but I am thankful for the suggestion now. My daughter’s name is Vivian-Leone Jonah Cannon. Leone was my grandmother’s middle name so she is named after both her Great-Grandmother, her Grandmother and her mom at the same time. My family makes fun of me for being whipped but I don’t care. I am proud to add my Vivi to the ranks!