Baby Girl Freedman-Without-the-D, Sister to Eleni and Rhys

Maria writes:

I am pregnant with baby #3 (due in early February) and have never been so stressed about naming. It really does get harder each time, so it’s good that we’re planning on this being our last.

My family is mostly Italian and Greek. My husband is from England. Our daughter is named Eleni Nicole and our son is Rhys James. So far, one Greek and one Welsh name. I’m expecting a baby girl and would prefer to give her an Italian first name, although loving the name is more important than the background.

Some names that I’ve been throwing around are:

Caterina
Lucia
Chiara
Melina (nn Millie after my grandmother), but that’s another Greek name

I also love the name Caia and have considered naming her Caterina with Caia as a nickname. Does that seem like too much of a stretch? I loved Eleni’s name for years before we had her. The only other name I’ve crushed on that far back is Caia but I can’t decide whether I prefer having the more formal Caterina as a given name with possible nicknames like Caia, Carina, Cat, Rina, etc……

The kids have been referring to her as Caterina Lucia which I liked for a while but am doubting now. Not sure if it’s too sing songy. E&R both have an “ethnic” first name and a more traditional name. Not sure Lucia in the middle matches Nicole and James.

I like Chiara but worry about the lack of nicknames. The only one I can think of is Kiki which isn’t my favorite.

Lucia is gorgeous but I think pronunciation will be an issue and I’m not sure whether I prefer loo-CHEE-ah or LOO-sha. Plus Leni and Lucy is pretty rhymey.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the names. Our last name is Freedman (without the D). My name is Maria and my husband is Joel.

A final consideration is that my kids usually go by Leni (pronounced like Laney) and Rhys. Do Leni, Rhys and Caia “match”? Do any of the others sound better as a sibling set? I am open to any and all suggestions, both for first and middle names.

Thank you for considering us, I would love some feedback.

And:

My grandfather died last week. His name was Joseph, and I think I’d like to use Josephine as a middle name in his honor.

I’d like to hear opinions on names that would work well. I still really like the name Caia but wonder if it’s too short or nicknamey?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

And:

I am so sorry to write again but I have one last update for your consideration. This naming business is making me crazy!

My kids keep calling the baby “Cataweena” which is really making me lean toward naming her Caterina, with possible nicknames of Caia, Carina or Cat. In talking to my sister who is about to marry and was very close to our grandfather who passed away, she likes the idea of using Joseph for one of her children. Since my son’s middle name is already after my father, I’m happy with “saving” Josephine for her to use in the future.

So….Caterina Lucia (my daughter’s choice) still seems a little singsongy to me, not sure about that. I would consider any suggestions you and your readers can offer. I think that Eleni, Rhys and Caterina go together pretty well, but not sure that Lucia fits with Nicole and James? Or whether that really even matters, to be honest.

My husband isn’t crazy about Chiara or Lucia as first names, so I think they’re out. I still love Melina, but came across the fact that melena is a medical term with a pretty gross meaning which holds me back, plus he doesn’t really like it anyway.

So I think Caterina will be her name. Can you help with the middle name?

Thanks so much, I apologize for my dithering!

 
No apologies for dithering/updating! I like to be able to answer an up-to-date question. I feel so sorry for the parents who write me in, say, June, and then their due-date group isn’t worked on until December—probably all their list is changed by then!

Let’s see if I can answer all the questions!

1. My opinion is that Caia is too much of a stretch as a nickname for Caterina: it’s a completely unrelated stand-alone name. “Formal names” are useful when the nickname is the desired name but doesn’t seem right/enough as a given name—so the parents choose Charles instead of Charlie, for example, or Katherine instead of Kate. Caterina, though, is the formal name for Cat and Cate, not for Caia. For Caia, Caterina is just “a longer name, also starting with C.”

2. I don’t think either Caterina Lucia or Caia Lucia are too sing-songy. In fact, I’m very partial to that kind of sound in names.

3. I also like the pronunciation lu-SEE-ah. But if you’re trying for an Italian name, my first choice is lu-CHEE-ah to reflect that.

4. I admit to being swayed by the kids calling the baby Catarina—but the parents get first choice on the name, and the kids will soon call her whatever you name her, and just as cutely too.

5. While I too like sibling names to coordinate, I don’t think you need to worry at all about the middle names not being perfectly coordinated. Middle names can be chosen for a variety of reasons, and so it’s common for them to NOT coordinate (e.g., even if all three names were namesake names, the namesakes are likely to have had names that don’t match at all stylistically).

6. I think Eleni/Leni, Rhys, and Caia sound like a good sibling group. I also think Eleni/Leni, Rhys, and Caterina sound like a good sibling group.

Everyone you ask will of course have their own set of answers to your questions. But my main opinion is that you should name your daughter the name you love, which is Caia—and not try to stretch it to some other name just because of the number of letters. Rhys is the same number of letters as Caia, but it wasn’t necessary to search for a much longer name starting with R and then try to use Rhys as a nickname for it: you just named him Rhys. Since Eleni also goes by a four-letter nickname, the name Caia is if anything a better sibling-name fit than Caterina. If, however, you PREFER the name Caterina, I think you should use Caterina. In either case, I think Lucia is the perfect middle name.

 

 

Name update! Maria writes:

Thank you and your readers for chiming in on my panicky naming confusion. After all the obsessing for months about the same few names, she ended up being named something completely different.

Isla Catherine was born February 7th. My husband suggested the name a few days before she was born and it just clicked. I’ve attached a photo of our little Isla…..

BabyFreedman

17 thoughts on “Baby Girl Freedman-Without-the-D, Sister to Eleni and Rhys

  1. Abby@AppMtn

    I disagree about “stretch” nicknames. (I do say this a lot, but I feel like parents need to hear the opposite opinion, too!) My daughter has a stretch nickname, and it isn’t a problem – actually, there are plenty of people in my extended (mostly Italian) family with stretch nicknames, probably because we tend to stick with the same family names.

    To me, Caia feels a little flimsy as a first name. Not unwearable, but not the kind of full name that a child can grow into. Caterina is gorgeous, classic AND meets your desire for an Italian name.

    But I don’t love Cat or Kitty, and Cate is so overused by all the girls named Katherine, Katelyn, and plain old Kate.

    Caterina and Eleni have quite a bit of balance, too. They’re both classics rendered in languages that nod to your family’s heritage.

    I’d use Caterina Lucia, nn Caia.

    Reply
  2. M.Amanda

    I disagree with Swistle that Caia is a stretch as a nn for Caterina. It begins and ends the same, just taking out the middle part. To me it makes more sense than John/Jack or Sarah/Sally.

    Also, I don’t think using Josephine as a middle name would mean your sister could not use it either for a middle name or first name. My own daughter shares a middle name with her cousin and a first name with an aunt (though they go by different nicknames). The full names are used so infrequently that we are all a little (pleasantly) surprised when we remember the fact. However, if it truly does mean so much to your sister that she uses it first, I like Caterina Lucia and Caterina Melina equally.

    Reply
  3. Swistle

    M. Amanda- I agree it seems like less of a stretch than, say, John/Jack and Sarah/Sally (and Margaret/Peggy and so forth)—but those are established traditional nicknames. Caia has not been established in that way. You could equally well say that Ada or Anna are nicknames for Amanda because they begin and end the same. They do begin and end the same, but Ada/Anna are nevertheless unrelated stand-alone names and not considered nicknames for Amanda.

    Reply
  4. Christine

    I wouldn’t use Caia as a nickname for Caterina, but I don’t see why you couldn’t! I mean, my mother called me Cricket for years; no ill effect noted (I did become a lawyer – so maybe one!)

    I would use Josephine as a middle name even if your sister plans on using it (or Joseph) as a name down the line. We have many cousins named Joseph, and my brother has the middle name.

    So my vote is for Caterina Josephine. I don’t love Caterina Lucia, although I love the names separately. Lucia (I vote for Lu-chee-ah) Josephine also works.

    Good luck!

    Reply
  5. Patricia

    One of my granddaughters is named Catrina Jane — called Catrina at first, but soon Catie and later Cate, but she uses Catrina as well. I love the name and think of it as a Scottish form of Catherine because it’s pronounced the same way as Catriona, a distinctly Scottish name. I’ve always liked the similarity of Catrina to the Italian Caterina too.

    I ‘vote’ for Caterina also called Caia. I don’t think that’s too much of a “stretch” at all, as I’m noticing many non-traditional nicknames being suggested on online baby name discussions these days.

    I think the given name Caterina is a better match with Eleni — both names being ‘exotic’/non-English versions of classic English language names — and would give your daughter both a formal name and short form as her older sister has. For the middle name, why not Lucy — which would be a better match with Nicole and James?

    Eleni Nicole Free(d)man
    Rhys James Free(d)man
    Caterina Lucy Free(d)man

    Reply
  6. beyond

    You could go either way. I like Caia as a first name, but I think I personally like Caterina Lucia better, I think it’s great with the sibling names and it’s not sing-songy to my ears at all.
    (And for what it’s worth I don’t see a problem with naming her Caterina and calling her Caia…)
    Good luck!

    Reply
  7. Megz

    How about Caia as the middle name? Caterina Caia Freedman. I know you didn’t like the rhyme-y aspect of Caterina Lucia, but a bit of aliteration is ok sometimes.

    Then if you really wanted to you could call her by her middle name as a family nickname, and the rest of the world could call her Caterina or whatever nickname she prefers.

    It also gives you a less ‘ethnic’ middle name like her siblings

    Eleni Nicole
    Rhys James
    Caterina Caia

    PS I LOVE Eleni and Melina. Good luck.

    Reply
  8. Anonymous

    What about using Caterina Lucy as a way to make it sound more like the others? I prefer the spelling Caya of Caia, and think it can easily be a stand alone name or a nickname, what ever you prefer!

    I also like Catalina Lucy or Catriona (pron. Ca-tree-nah) Lucy for you.

    Reply
  9. Anonymous

    My partner’s daughter’s name is Lucia – Loo-See-Ah – and I absolutely aaaadore it (as well as her). What about Lucia Catherine?

    Reply
  10. StephLove

    If Caia is the name you’ve loved the longest, I’d go with that one as the full name rather than turning it into a nickname for something else. I think Caia Lucia, Caia Lucy or Caia Josephine would all be lovely.

    Reply
  11. Frazzled Mom

    The only downside I can think for Caia as a nickname for Caterina is that if Caia is the name you really want, it could get lost if your daughter decides she wants another nickname or would rather just be Caterina.

    I think either name Caia or Caterina are lovely. But if Caia is what you really like, that’s what you should use.

    Reply
  12. Anonymous

    I think that Caia sounds way better with Eleni and Rhys, however I also think that it could work as a nickname for Caterina if you wanted.

    I think that Caia is absolutely fine by itself. If Maya/Maia is fine, then so is Caia.

    A name that I think Caia could be a nickname for is Calliope (cah-LIE-oh-pee). Though that is also a greek name.

    Anyway, if I was you I would use Caia. What about Caia Melina? That sounds nicer than Caia Lucia :-)

    Reply
  13. Anonymous

    How about Catia/Katia for Caterina? Is quite close to Caia in my mind, and less of a stretch. Though if your heart is set on Caia, go for it!

    Reply
  14. Maria

    Thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments and suggestions. Gave me lots to think about! I will be sure to update once she arrives and is officially named.

    Reply
  15. Patricia

    Kudos to your husband! Isla is perfect with Eleni and Rhys. And I love the full name Isla Catherine. Thanks for letting us know and including the darling photo — love the hat!

    Reply

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