Bev writes:
My husband and I are due with our second child, and first girl, on December 29th, and we have some concerns about names that we’d like to address.
Okay, so we decided on the name Phoebe Amanda almost immediately after we found out we were expecting. We loved the name.. everything was perfect. But I switched jobs about three months ago, and have since encountered a very nasty co-worker who’s name is Amanda. So, as you can imagine, I don’t really want to use Amanda anymore.
Now about three years ago, while I was pregnant with my son, my cousin, Monica, passed away. We were very close when we were kids, so I really wanted to honor her, but as we were having a boy, we couldn’t. (We aren’t the type of people who count using Bianca as a name to honor Fiona, because they have the same meaning. We’d like to use the actual name.) But we decided on Phoebe Amanda so quickly, and it was set, and we didn’t want to change it. But now we definitely aren’t using Amanda, so we’ve decided to use Phoebe Monica.
Why am I writing, if we’ve already chosen a name, you ask? Well I have three concerns that I was hoping I could get some input on.
1. Our last name begins with an S. I’m worried that Phoebe will get teased for her initials in school.. it seems like the kind of thing junior high boys would have a fit about. I had unfortunate initials myself (my name is Beverly, and my maiden name starts with an O, so I had to go through junior high enduring jokes like “Bev has BO!” and it was not a great experience.) Yes, so I’m worried about the PMS thing. Is that a big deal?
2. Phoebe and Monica are both Friends characters. It may not seem like that big of a deal, but
3. Our three year old son is named Russell. We call him Russ. Russ is very close to Ross, another Friends character. I am a bit of a Friends fanatic, but I swear (really!) it wasn’t intentional. Is this too much?
I’m having all sorts of second thoughts! I need feedback please
Thanks!
Ooo, what interesting questions! I’ll give my opinions, and then everyone else can give theirs too so you can get a feel for general reactions.
1. For me, initials spelling PMS would be a dealbreaker. I know a lot of people don’t mind, but I strongly dislike initials that spell things, and especially negative things.
2. It wouldn’t bother me that Phoebe and Monica were both on the television show Friends, even though you have a Russ. I think Russ and Ross are different enough, and also your daughter will mostly be known by her first name without her middle name so that will reduce the likelihood of anyone noticing. I have one child with a name that is known almost exclusively from a television show, and even so it’s only come up twice in the child’s whole life. Both times, the person said, “Oh, like on ____?” and I looked blank and said no, following it with an explanation of how we DID choose it.
One thing you could do to reduce the impact of all these concerns is add one more name: Phoebe ___ Monica S. or Phoebe Monica ___ S., though I recommend the first option since programs that only accept three initials will take the first of the two middle initials. Do you have any other girl names that you like but not enough to reserve them for a future girl name? Maybe another family name? This gives her different initials and dilutes the effect of the Phoebe/Monica combination.
You could also save the name Monica for a possible future girl.
Name update 01-10-2010! Bev writes:
Our daughter was born healthy as a horse on December 28th (8 lbs 3 oz, 21 inches). Thank you to you and to all the commenters.. the advice was extremely helpful. We decided on the suggestion of adding another middle to eliminate the initials problem. Her name is Phoebe Monica Grace. Thank you so so much.
Being a serious Friends fan myself, if I heard both of your children’s names I would probably make the connection. BUT, how many people are crazy Friends fans like us?
As for the initials.. What if you changed the order of the two names and used Monica Phoebe instead. That eliminates your initial issue. And you could still call her Phoebe. Plenty of people go by their middle names.
Oh, it sucks to have this issue! You have a name you like coupled with a name that is meaningful and it seems so UNFAIR that you have to deal with these issues. HOWEVER, I do agree with Swistle that the PMS thing IS a big deal, and will probably be very annoying for her. Also, I don’t think the Russ thing matters so much, but the Phoebe-Monica-Friends connection was absolutely instantaneous for me. But maybe that will change with time as a new generation grows up without that show?
Personally I agree with Swistle. I think it makes sense to save Monica for use with a future girl, or, if you really want to use it, put another middle name before it. Or maybe there’s another way to honor your cousin? Like maybe she had a favorite color or a favorite flower or some other defining characteristic that might translate well into a name?
Good luck!
Oh, yeah, that stinks. I definitely would NOT use PMS as her initials.
None of it bothers me. I am a HUGE friends fan and STILL didn’t click in until you explained it.
But, adding a 2nd mn, as long as it’s not Rachel, would help with or solve all of your issues:-)
The Friends thing wouldn’t bother me at all. The PMS thing would be a deal breaker.
The PMS thing doesn’t bother me THAT much, because I never really think of initials — but if I really think about it, yeah, it’s not ideal. If you didn’t think of it and it happened more accidentally, then okay. But since you ARE conscious of it beforehand, I might make a change.
For me though, the Friends thing is too much… especially since there was the episode when Rachel dated “Russ”, who was Ross’ exact double? Remember? I thought Phoebe Monica was bad enough, but when you throw in that your son is Russ? Hm. I just don’t think it’s a good idea. Friends was too iconic of a program, in my personal opinion.
Phoebe and Russell/Russ together is FINE, but I’d just try something other than Monica. Since you liked “Amanda”, what about some similar names to that?
Phoebe Amelia S
Phoebe Alexandra S
Phoebe Adriana S
Also, Swistle? Admit it, your daughter’s name is “Buffy”.
;-)
I agree that the Friends connections wouldn’t bother me – it’s getting older anyway so it will be less of an issue as time goes by. But the PMS initials I would not do, I would not recommend to others, I just don’t think it’s worth it. What was your cousin’s middle name? Could you use that perhaps?
Steph the WW- No, no—it’s one of my sons, and his name is Matlock. (Too dated? Would it be funnier if it was Night Rider? Or He-Man?)
Phoebe is a beautiful name and I like it with Russell. I like the show Friends and still didn’t make the connection, and I think the reference will fade over time. However, I do think the PMS initials will be a problem. Since the name Monica is meaningful for you, I like the idea of a second middle name. Off hand, Anne or June seem like they might flow well (Phoebe Monica Anne/ Phoebe Monica June), but I’m sure there are lots of good options.
Best of luck, and congratulations on your baby girl!
I think it would be a really nice way to honor your cousin if you named her Monica Phoebe, or just named her Phoebe _____ Monica or Phoebe Monica _____. You don’t want PMS, that is for sure. Maybe your maiden name if it goes? I wouldn’t save the name, because maybe you don’t have more kids or any more girls.
The Friends thing wouldn’t compute with Russ and Phoebe…I might be more inclined to connect Monica and Russ; but yeah, I think with the passing of time, this will be less of an issue.
Good luck!
I don’t know about this passing of time thing with Friends… it reached out to a lot of generations and will be in repeats forever… look at Seinfeld too, that show ended when I was 12-years-old and I can still watch it five nights a week. Or Cheers? I wouldn’t name my kids Sam and Diane; I wouldn’t name my kids Samantha and Darren because of Bewitched.
I mean, it shouldn’t bother people, but I just think it’s just so obvious… and if you WERE a Friends fan, I think you’d be defending it a lot.
Also, Swistle: Ah, right, Matlock! My guess was way off. ;-) (Is your other son Misterbean? I knew you were creative!)
(I should mention, I’m 24 now, so the Seinfeld example is indicating how 12 years later, we’re all still watching it).
Both would be deal breakers for me. More so the initials though. I have a friend who has two children- Jack and Kate. That is way too Lost for me but not everyone notices it.
I love the name Phoebe, by the way.
The initials would be a huge deal breaker for me.
Regardless Friends or initials, I just plain out don’t like the sound of Phoebe Monica. In my head it doesn’t flow quite right probably because of Friends I hear it as two distinct and separate names. On the other hand I’m big on family names and my children have them; less obviously is my daughters because it’s not exact. I like the suggestion of using the cousins middle name or perhaps her maiden name (?) in the middle name spot. Same effect, perhaps less bad initial and clash sound?
In the end, regardless of what you do, you’ll love her name and it will suite her. :)
As a new mama of a Phoebe Louise Claire, I can reassure you that the name Phoebe by itself has generated NOT ONE comment of “Oh, like on Friends?” I think that Phoebe Monica _____ Lastname is a great idea. We’ve had no problem with two middle names so far either. The PMS initials would be a dealbreaker for me as well.
Just to warn you though, Phoebe gets spelled Pheobe about 50% of the time.
I made the Friends connection, I used to love that show. However, I doubt that many people will make the connection, especially in the future. (the show ended in 04)
The initials would be problematic for me. Not a deal-breaker, but I would think about it very carefully. (Not because I would personally think of it/pay attention to it, but because kids can be so cruel.)
I would add a third name too, or swap out either phoebe or monica with another that you might like.
here are a few that I think have the same feeling as the two you love. (for inspiration?)
Charlotte, Emily, Grace, Katharine, Maya, Olivia.
Sorry. I didn’t even like the show and the first thing I thought of was Friends. SORRY! However, that wouldn’t bother me; it would be the PMS that would be a dealbreaker for me. Kids can be so mean.
What about switching them? Monica Phoebe S___, but you can call her Phoebe?
My husband’s brother is called exclusively by his middle name.
I don’t mind the friends connection at all and I am going to go out on a limb here and say – I don’t really mind the initials either. Its a family name afterall, and no one ever paid any attention to my less than awesome initials. I don’t think its ideal, of course, but not necessarily a dealbreaker for me either. It depends on how much you want to name her after Monica.
That said, I think you should go with Phoebe Amanda, because its the name you LOVE and felt it was right for YOUR BABY, and you might encounter another Phoebe you hate or another Monica who sucks, but once your baby is named, that is who you will associate with the name. A co-worker, even if she is snarky, is hardly worth ruining a very good name that you love, and that would be perfect for your daughter. And who knows, maybe she’ll be fired tomorrow?
Some fairly unpopular views in this corner, but hey, add it to the pile.
First of all, I think Phoebe is a very pretty name with lots of personality. It is definitely underused, so it’s a gem. Hang onto it!
Honestly, I think there will be a good number of people who make the association with Friends. No, probably not everyone, but enough to make it an issue. Would that be a deal breaker for me? Not really. You love the names, and Monica has a special meaning to you, so if you are willing to put up with a few inevitable Friends comments, then I say go for it :)
Now, the initial problem. Yes, PMS is a bit of an issue. I think that if you add another name to break it up then you won’t have a problem. I would suggest Phoebe __ Monica S. Maybe a middle name with one syllable that doesn’t have a vowel ending? Grace, Jane, Anne, Blake, Kate, etc. I just think something like that would really help you out with flow.
Good luck!
The Friends connection doesn’t really bother me. The initials PMS is an absolute dealbreaker (for me). Changing it to Monica Phoebe would leave you with a Russ and Monica … that Friends connection would bother me.
I think it’s best to use one name or the other. Does your love of the name Phoebe outweigh your desire to name your daughter after your late cousin? Could you use Monica’s middle name or last name in place of Monica?
I agree that Friends has huge staying power, so people (probably not their classmates, but certainly their classmates parents) will make the connection for a long time to come.
Can’t wait to hear the results! Wishing you a speedy, healthy delivery!
I’m with everyone who said the Friends connection is not a big deal but the initials are. You’ve already received two good solutions– add a middle name or reverse the order of the names.
If you go with another middle here are some ideas:
Phoebe Anne Monica
Phoebe Elizabeth Monica
Phoebe Catherine Monica
Phoebe Helen Monica
Phoebe Louise Monica
Phoebe Ruth Monica
I knew a girl in middle school with PMS as her initials. And it was bad, and she was teased. But she was also teased by her first name – “Pepsi”.
I’d definately change something for the initials to be different.
Good luck!
Also…
Swistle,
Eeek, a name! Matlock! This makes me want to search all your comments to see if you’ve shared the others. Is it William’s name? Or maybe Henry’s?
How exciting! :)
Phoebe Monica doesn’t roll off the tongue for me.
Although both names are beautiful, with the emphasis being on the first syllable of Monica, the awkward combination eliminates any music in the name.
Maybe Phoebe Monique.
I just wanted to say that your daughter will be called Phoebe, not Phoebe Monica. No one will have to know her middle name unless she tells them. So I really don’t think there’s much of an issue with that.
And the Friends thing.. it’s not like the names are exclusively Friends names. So I don’t think that’s a big issue either.
I always think of the show Friends whenever I hear the name Phoebe, so pairing it with Monica definitely sounds (to me) like you’re naming them after the show. Add the PMS dilemma and I’d say go with another name.
I think Phoebe will remind a lot of people of Friends. Especially with the middle name of Monica. And ESPECIALLY with the brother’s name of Russ. I’m not saying you’d have to name your cat Chandler and refer to your house as Central Perk but you should definitely consider how much this will bother you. Is it going to irritate you every time somebody makes that connection? Or can you laugh it off and say “Well I loved that show, but here’s how her name came about….”
Also, I know other commenters have said that even if people make the connection now, it will fade with time. But I’m here to tell you that people DO remember stuff. The Wedding Singer came out in 1998 and I’m STILL getting “Julia Gulia.”
Hmmm. Honestly, I think if it was one or the other, the initials OR the Friends thing, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue- but I personally couldn’t use it.
The initials thing alone is a deal breaker for me too. There are so many lovely names – I just couldn’t do it.
Phoebe Veronica?
Phoebe Annika?
Just throwing those out there since they sound similar
I made no connection with Friends, and after hearing about it, it doesn’t seem like a big deal at all. And it will matter less and less with time. HER friends aren’t going to think about it a bit.
I don’t think the “PMS” connection would bother me, especially since she may well get married and have different initials at some point. But I do think choosing a second middle name idea sounds fun, and then you can forget about PMS altogether.
First, as an Amanda, let me apologize for your coworker. I feel Amandas who act mean reinforce writers’ desire to name sly, manipulative women Amanda when we are certainly not all like that.
Second, the PMS thing would be a deal-breaker for me. It’s a ready-made joke for 12-year-old boys.
Third, as has been said here before, once you give the name to your child, you’ll most likely associate it with her more than the coworker. That other Amanda (hopefully) either won’t be your coworker or won’t be someone you dislike forever, so don’t let her keep you from using a name you love for someone you will know and love the rest of your life.
I am probably the only person that is going to say this, but as someone with the initials PMS, I think my opinion should hold more weight. In middle school I did wonder what my mom was thinking, but after that, it really wasn’t that big a deal (the immature boys in high school were more caught up on the fact that the name Peyton was only used by Peyton Manning at the time). Most people aren’t known by their full names anyway. I also don’t think that Phoebe Monica is a bad choice either—again, most people aren’t known by their full names.
I made the Friends connection immediately, and though I think Friends has staying power, I believe the reference will fade over time. Especially because Phoebe and Monica are both classic names.
PMS as the initials would be a dealbreaker.
Sidenote: My grandmother is 92 and still occasionally mentions that her mother “thought that initials should spell something”. As a result, my Gram’s maiden-name initials spelled ‘JEW’. More than anything, she seems perplexed/amused by it. She’s, ah, not Jewish.
I didn’t have time to reply before now, but add my voice to those who suggest maybe reconsidering Phoebe Amanda. The nasty co-worker won’t be in your life forever, and my take is, if she is that nasty, why let her ruin a perfectly good name. To me, that is like giving the nasty person more power than she deserves. I am also assuming you would call you daughter Phoebe anyway so you wouldn’t be reminded of the co-worker as much when the name is relegated to the second position.
I made the Friends connection right away and for me that would be a deal breaker (and I highly doubt people are going to forget Friends anytime soon). Added to the problem of PMS for initials and just…I could not do it. I am also not a fan of giving your daughter three names just to separate Phoebe and Monica (and I agree with a previous commenter that Phoebe Monica sounds a little off together anyway).
Wow, so much negativity! Sorry! My (hopefully helpful!) suggestion would be to perhaps use Monica’s middle name in honor of her? I do like the name Phoebe a lot and I hope you find a combination that you love. Good luck!
PMS – I was going to say that children might not know what it means, but it seems to be a huge deal to the others here, so I’d heed that advice.
Monica Phoebe would be a nice alternative. Or… Have you thought of using Mona instead of Monica? I know you’d like to use the actual name, but Mona to me would be close enough to honor a Monica.
If Pheobe isn’t an absolute, here are some thoughts on alternatives:
Other F names: Fern, Fiona, Fenella, Fia, Freja
Other Amanda-type names: Amelia, Amita, Amira, Amaya, Amoena, Belinda, Melinda
Swistle! I’ve been trying to send you my update, but the email keeps bouncing back.. I don’t know why. I tried from my husband’s email also.
I’m posting it here, I don’t know if you are notified when there are new comments on posts, but I hope you see this.
Anyway, I wanted to update you that our daughter was born healthy as a horse on December 28th (8 lbs 3 oz, 21 inches). Thank you to you and to all the commenters.. the advice was extremely helpful. We decided on the suggestion of adding another middle to eliminate the initials problem. Her name is Phoebe Monica Grace. Thank you so so much.