Oh! While I have you here, I’d like to ask a favor: if you have read my dear friend’s new book The Art of Magic, would you be willing to go to Amazon to leave a review?
(image from Target.com)
Apparently the thingie Amazon uses for returning/sorting search results doesn’t really care about any product that doesn’t have fifty or more reviews. Which simultaneously makes me think two things: (1) That is a DUMB SYSTEM AND I HATE IT, and (2) I should be leaving more positive reviews. I hate to give in to a dumb system, but if that IS the system, then there are a lot of things I’ve read/bought that I’ve really liked but I haven’t bothered to leave reviews because I don’t have anything interesting or helpful to say. But apparently saying ANYTHING is helpful. And I want the things I like to do well. So, fine. Fine. If necessary I will leave reviews that say “I liked this!!,” with a title of “I liked this!!” (I hate choosing a title for the review.)
An update on the Rob/Seattle situation is that he’s just GOING. He is not going to wait until he has a job: he just picked an apartment (he got a studio because it was taking too long to figure out a roommate) and got a flight and he is leaving in two days. Without a job, without the lead time necessary to get a good price on the flight, without ever seeing the apartment in person or knowing how far it will end up being from the future job (please let there be a future job). He is just GOING.
I am driving him to the airport and I am trying not to say “Oh, and another thing!!” every 5 minutes. Each time I have a thought, I try to first put it through the filter of “Is this something he can figure out for himself and/or ask me about if he wants to know? or is it important enough to be one of the, say, three to five total things I can get away with mentioning to him between now and the time he leaves?” Does he know the apartment will not be stocked with anything, not even toilet paper? Does he know he will absolutely need a very good bike lock?/Does he know how to effectively use a bike lock? Does he know his address, so he can get there from the airport and also so he can ship himself a mattress-in-a-box? Is he remembering he was going to ship himself a mattress-in-a-box? Does he know how to get utilities put in his name? Does he know it’s sometimes cheaper to buy a round-trip ticket than a one-way ticket? Has he thought about whether he can afford the space in his luggage for a bike helmet or whether it would be better to order one to be shipped to him? Does he know there is a size/weight limit on luggage? Has he looked up the nearest grocery/convenience store to his apartment? Is he packing some granola bars or something so he won’t starve while he figures out food? Does he know he should bring an empty water bottle through airport security and then fill it once he’s through security?
So far I have casually asked if he knows his address (no), which I don’t think should count as one of my suggestions/mentions, since I didn’t actually suggest/mention anything. I have also mentioned the bike lock, and the size/weight limit on luggage. I am thinking about mentioning the toilet paper. I am going to trust that he can figure out food, but will casually mention on the day of travel that he should feel free to put any household snacks into his luggage—oh-and-that-might-be-nice-to-have-when-you-first-arrive; I don’t think that should count as one of my suggestions/mentions, either, as long as I can pull off a very breezy tone.
omg, I have this son. it is impossible. you want to make sure they’ve considered certain things without being accused of being hovering and hitting his “boundaries”. but you must be willing and able to answer any asked question/concern the moment it is asked because you will not be allowed time to think about that answer.
Oh! So many things. He doesn’t know his address!!!
He’ll likely be fine. And learn by doing that having a grocery store nearby is a nice thing, mattresses are nice to sleep on, etc. I slept on the floor in blankets for like a year after college. Eventually I got a bed. It’s fine.
I would, I think, gently remind him that you know a lot of things and he can always ask and you will help to the best of your ability. AND you have access to a huge group of people who also know a lot of things, some of us may be nearby (not me, Boston, should anyone need that information) and willing to help. So he doesn’t have to falter through this whole thing unless he wants to and that is his choice.
And good for him! It’s lovely to be young and untethered and willing to take (reasonable) risks. I hope it’s great and he gets a job and he learns tons of things from the entire experience.
I’m in Seattle near downtown and South Lake Union (tech hub). I’d be happy to show him around or invite him home for dinner, if you think he’d take me up on it. We have a 15 year old son, who I think shares some characteristics with Rob. He sometimes seems like he’s unteachable…. but we prefer to say that he refuses to learn something until he’s really ready to learn it. I don’t think it’s hard to get a tech job in Seattle, but it might be hard to get a good (non-exploitive) job without knowing the lay of the land and having connections. Property crime is absolutely insane here, so in addition to the bike lock, renters insurance that covers the bike would be wise.
I thought Rob’s plan sounded a bit reckless, as someone who lives in this wildly expensive city. Then I remembered my partner also moved to Seattle sight unseen after college, with a computer science degree, in the mid 2000s. He found a job and everything worked out. I hope Rob also has a good experience!
I LOVE this. I would NOT love this if it was my own teenager, but it’s just such a brave, risky, rewarding thing to do and what a brave boy you have raised to just step out and seek out the life he wants.
Godspeed, Rob!
I know this is torture for you, and would be for me too, but I LOVE that he’s doing this. He has google, you and your family to call on, and he’s smart. It’ll be hard but this is the time in life to do hard things. I admire you so much and wish I had a mother like you. I’m sure he feels confident to do this because he knows you will always be there for whatever he may need, when he needs it.
Good for you for being thoughtful about your advice! Rob is lucky to have you and Paul as a safety net. Recently I was reminiscing and telling my kids about my first apartment after college. It was a great exercise in independence, living in a different city from where I grew up. While things weren’t always comfortable, but I managed on my own. I worked a slightly above minimum wage job – just enough for rent and groceries, but not much else. I made new friends, took public transportation everywhere, figured out some basic medical care things (no insurance!), and lived with no furniture for a year except a bed.
Also… big hugs and high 5 to parents launching their young adults into the world. Letting go is hard and brave.
I haven’t lived with my parents for the summer since I was 14: when I was 15 I went to an in-residence science school, but from 16 onwards I got jobs and sub-let furnished rooms from college/university students and paid my way with my minimum-wage jobs. I also spent pretty much every weekend staying at friends’ places in the city from 15 onwards and would breezily tell my mother that I’d see her Sunday when I left for school on Friday morning, then head into town with whatever ride I could snag after school. My daughter is now 16 and would I want her to do the same? No way! She’s staying with the daughter of my university BFF in a few weeks in the city we went to university in, and I’m tentatively trying to figure out logistics of putting her on a bus or train to travel 6 hours all by herself and even that is kind of freaking me out. I know it’s a bit hypocritical, and in theory now that there are cell phones, etc. it’s a lot safer and easier for her to reach out if she has an issue, but I recognize that I was VERY independent and honestly very lucky that nothing truly bad ever happened to me and, frankly, my mother was kind of bad at being a mom and if she wasn’t I probably wouldn’t have lived the lifestyle I did at such a young age.
And I forgot to add my point after writing all that… Rob will be fine and quickly learn a lot of life skills he might not have already acquired. If he ends up sleeping on the floor for awhile, well, that’s not the worst thing ever. If he doesn’t bring snacks he’ll have to be hungry while he figures out where to get food. It sounds like some of the stuff he’s not thinking about will cost him more money that it has to but, well, it’s his money, and I’m sure he’ll figure out how to economize when his funds get low. The main thing is that he knows he can reach out to you in an emergency and he’s not alone.
You know, I was thinking about how this is also not the way I would do/have done things to launch into adulthood – but then it occurred to me, he IS launching! So many boys especially seem to struggle with taking the initiative to leave the parental nest, but Rob is doing it! Good for him, and good for you! (And, he’ll figure out pretty quickly about the TP, and be able to remedy it no problem!)
I moved 3,000 miles away to go to grad school when I was 23. Had never visited the place I was moving to, had never seen the school, didn’t know anyone in town, didn’t have any furniture etc and its was pre internet so no googling where on earth to find things. I was kind of an idiot but I was also thrilled and have lived here ever since (almost 30 years). That said, the thought of Oldest doing something similar causes me so much anxiety (I’m sure my mom had some serious anxiety about my move). MAN it’s hard to be a parent sometimes.
ME TOO! At 23 I moved thousands of miles away for grad school, to a sight unseen apartment, with my boyfriend and his grandmother’s piano. It worked out (for us, we’re married now, though we had to leave the piano with his cousin), but it was a lot to handle. We had no money at first, the apartment was further than I anticipated from campus, had no laundry, etc etc. Fond memories. My oldest is only 7 but it’s already hard to bite my tongue when she launches into some half baked plan I MEAN learning experience.
I love the encouraging comments. As a (very) former Seattle resident my only soothing contribution is that if Rob is lucky, his mystery apartment will be near a Sound Transit light rail station. The train runs from the airport north through the city, so it could get him most of the way there for a reasonable price. And so it begins. Good luck, Rob! Good luck, Swistle!
a) I am super impressed with you and your ability to let him go and figure things out
b) I am having second-hand stress with all of this
I know, I know, I KNOW that our kids can figure things out and if they don’t realize that there isn’t, I don’t know, soap for the bathroom we can trust that they will go and buy soap for the bathroom but OMG THIS IS SO STRESSFUL. *breathes into paper bag*
Non parent here but can see why you would find this stressful but I think it’s great that’s he WANTS to leave the nest and stretch his (metaphorical) wings. Best of luck to him!
I do foresee a Swistle mom care package coming his way soon that will include several rolls of toilet paper.
This is so exciting! Wishing Rob well on his adventure and you well with your nerves!
I love this SO much. Also this is truly the strongest case that I have ever heard about kids just….being who they are, and we can’t really influence much. The fact that YOUR kid- you who are so thoughtful, so sensitive to nuance, so proactive in planning, so intentional!- could do this is like WOW. They really are just who they are. He’s about to learn so, so, so much. How exciting!
I feel all of this.
Did Paul have any conversations with Rob ( or you ) about pregaming for this move?
In our family, Dads prep the boys and Moms prep the girls. Is this antiquated – I dunno?
Yikes! Young adults are still such CHILDREN, Aren’t they? If this were my young adult, I’d assume the flight stuff he will recall and/or remember on the spot from previous trips, so I wouldn’t waste energy on that. (In his whole entire life, there was never a time he could bring water through security or no limit weight in a bag). I also think the TP/snack thing will resolve out of necessity. I would say bike lock is a good thing to mention since having a bike stolen would result in a big financial consequence. Sending much patience to you.
That is exciting for him! I wish him good luck and you peace of mind. A lot can be accomplished with google and a roof over his head and the knowledge that if he needs to you can call you/go home. He seems like a smart kid and I’m sure he will figure it out. And the harder it is, the more interesting his “how I moved to seattle” story will be once he gets it figured out lol.
I did this exact thing (except to Austin from California and with a boy I had just met). His parents were particularly worried about him/us. It was definitely an adventure but nothing bad happened and I learned a lot very quickly.
I mean. I did the “land and then figure it out” thing with a different country, albeit same-language, without cell phones, and the weirdo inconveniences and forgotten things provide Stories For Later Life (it would have worked out better if the airplane hadn’t misplaced the luggage with my starter kitchen gear, but still: baked potatoes with butter and salt in aluminum foil with no forks work as dinner for a night until the luggage gets there the next day). If you’re young, healthy, and have financial space (can buy a different bike if your bike gets stolen without that being crippling debt or can eat takeout for a few days)(and also male or already-coupled such that sexual assault is less of an issue), you will be definitely fine, just collect entertaining stories of improvisation which you look back on fondly. (and many of which you actually enjoyed at the time; it is like camping but hopefully without most of the bugs?)
And then you eventually end up with the Things To Bring To A New Place (shower curtain liner at least, toilet paper, soap, towel, sheets, extremely basic kitchen) and things are smoother and you are a boring adult rather than a young adult. But learning is good. And the entire internet is full of resources now, and cell phones have the internet on them and it is *magic* for finding what you need, whether that’s the nearest grocery store or how to fix a shower.
Also, I love Seattle but I hope he gets a really good job because it is *expensive* now. (also Amazon sucks; some divisions of Microsoft are better than others; there are tons of startups and some of them are legitimate risks and some of them are just scams but as long as he insists on a paycheck he won’t be the one who is maximally scammed; but really, there is a lot of tech there and he may find something he does well at)
I want to be encouraging but alas, I am not that person. Living in a college town and being married to an ex-cop, I have to ask if he is legitimately, truly, 100% sure that the apartment exists and is available to be rented and that he is, in fact, the only person who has put down a deposit on the place? I only ask because this a classic scam that international students have fallen prey to in my city. Hopefully it is all legit, but it may be worth thinking about contingencies if this apartment falls through when he arrives and he calls you asking wtf he should do now.
Is Rob the one who had the summer-job-that-wasn’t? Not that you can say anything. Ugh!
However, my own kid whose breezy attitude drove me around the bend as commencement approached got through everything he had to get through. So I guess that’s a thing that can happen.
Ugh sometimes I think the Toddler years were so much easier than the Young Adult years. Neither toddlers nor young adults listen to you, and they both DO expect you to drop everything at the sound of their voice, but with a toddler you can scoop them up and take charge. With a Young Adult you have to just . . . watch helplessly as they fly off with nary a roll of toilet paper in their bag.
If my mom said “Do you want to take a roll of toilet paper with you to use until you can go shopping” I wouldn’t take it as overbearing!
Came here to say this. Or at least a couple purse-sized packs of tissue.
Depending on my age, I would have taken it as overbearing, so I’d say it’s worth thinking about the relationships between the specific people involved. One kid’s no-big-deal is another kid’s source of prickliness.
I say this mostly because there was a period of time in my early-to-mid-20s where my mom’s desire to help via stuff drove me crazy. I didn’t need the help. I didn’t want her to send me anything, because I either already had it covered or the things she sent me were not things I wanted. Or were in a category of things I wanted, but weren’t at all what I would’ve chosen for myself. In those cases, I was generally saving for what I wanted and was fine with waiting until I had the money. Having her swoop in with unasked-for things was unwelcome.
Looking back, I think that she was doing it as a way to control her own feelings– it was a way for her to feel like she was addressing her unhappiness about the (functional!) choices I was making. But at the time, I mostly felt like she was trying to control me from a distance. If there had been a way to shut it down without hurting her feelings, I would’ve done so.
I might just … set a roll of toilet paper on top of bags that are in the process of being packed… It will either then go in the suitcase or raise a question.
Oh, man….I’m so impressed with Rob…but as a mom of a young man around his age, I’m also anxious for him and you, specially after reading Squirrel Bait’s comment. I seem to live under a rock often but that scam on apartments shocked me and made me more anxious!
But I am sure he will be fine; a big growing-up opportunity, which is good for all young adults.
He’ll be fine. I love his sense of adventure, which I can admire because it’s not my kid. I’m north of Seattle, keep my email in case you need someone close.
Congratulations on raising a brave adventurer.
I would, as a gift, give him six months renters insurance. Just set it up yourself and call it a housewarming gift. Then have the next six month bill sent to him. Now you’ve got the bike covered while he figures out how to use the lock.
I’d also either tuck a small pack of tissues into his carry on rather than mention TP or get his address and have a delivery of TP, hand soap and a few essentials shipped to his new apartment for the day he arrives. :) now you can save the reminders about the bike lock and TP and address other issues.
Does Rob know about temp agencies? I did not, until my after-college roommate’s plan A didn’t work out, and temping became his (completely viable and ultimately successful) plan B.
(And…is the three to five pieces advice limit applicable to ALL categories of advice, or do maybe especially motherly types of advice related to food and planning ahead for bathrooms count for more against the limit than welcome-to-adulthood-its-full-of-boring-financial-talk advice?)
I’m waiting for all the seeds you’ve planted about cleaning to blossom and bear fruit in his new environment :)
My son did this exact thing last October. I was terrified…and annoying. I even tried to make it harder because of how impossible it seemed. He’s a college graduate but without ‘real’ job experience and he’s just moving to New York City?! He did go with friends but he didn’t have an apartment lined up so he stayed with the friends until he found his own place. To make this long and very stressful for me story short, he’s doing great. He found an apartment with four other people, his friends live down the block, he got a job within a month and is much more self sufficient than I gave him credit for. He’s living his best life and now I’m so glad he took the leap and did it.
Well this post made me a little weepy and then the comments made me burst into tears so clearly it’s a good thing that my kiddo isn’t quite ready to leave the nest. But oh! how I hope she has the confidence and courage to pursue her dreams and that I have your courage and thoughtful restraint to let her be the person she wants to be. All the luck to Rob!!!
Goodness, this post makes me think of all the things my own parents must have bitten their tongues about when I was around Rob’s age! I hope I’ll be able to follow their lead when my kids are old enough! I sure learned from my failures to plan and have some great memories from it, too.
Good luck to Rob! What an adventure. (I’d be worried, too, of course.)
Ahhh I can only imagine how much tongue-biting you’re doing now. BUT! Imagine in 5 years time when Rob meets a woman (or man, or whatever) and they vet him for life partner suitability. He’ll have lived an independent life, found his feet in a new city, made his own mistakes and learned from them. He’ll have learned to pay his bills and mop his floor and sort insurance, update his address, make friends in a new place. He’ll have launched himself into the world and however it turns out (and even if he needs some help and a restart or two along the way) it’s all going to be so great for him.
I wouldn’t bother mentioning toilet paper, on the grounds that he’s likely going to pick some up himself at the grocery store or a convenience store, and he’s capable of finding one of those himself once he’s on the ground there. He’ll be inconvenienced, but not harmed by having to deal with that. And I’d give him a good bike lock as a gift a couple of days before he leaves as a send-off present. Mostly because if his bike gets stolen, it’ll be a bigger deal to cope with, plus as someone without a job, he might be tempted to cheap out on a lock.
I’d ask about the utilities in a round-about way by asking about the lease. My Seattle studio had utilities included in the rent—nothing to put in my own name there. His may be the same.
I flew the nest at the tender age of 21 (and highly clueless 21 yr old, at that). Completely agree with all the folks saying this is a great character-building and learning-by-doing period :) I spent my first month in my new city sleeping literally in a friend’s bed with her; then moved on to an apartment with 0 furniture or cookware where we ate cans of beans while sitting cross legged on the floor for a week until my roommate’s boyfriend who had a car could bring us to IKEA + Best Buy so we could get a loveseat, some plates and pots, and a TV. I continued to often live on ramen for days in a row for the first few years while waiting for my paycheck to deposit so I would have more than $1.18 in my bank account.
All of which to say, I cannot BELIEVE my parents didn’t spontaneously combust during this period (although to be fair I never shared most of the hardships with them – I was determined to Make It On My Own) and I turned out to be a very successful human being in the end. Learning By Doing is a necessary (and legitimately fun/exciting) path for some of us doofuses :)
I realize this is much easier to say as someone observing from an emotionally and financially safe remove, but I eagerly look forward to hearing about how he figures all of this out and how it unfolds!
Ah, to be young.
Eek, this would stress me out as a parent. For a word of encouragement though, I was a very clueless 21 year old who started in a new city post college and despite a few hiccups through the way, things turned out fine. It sounds like he is smart and capable and will eventually figure out how to adult. And be very glad he is taking this step—definitely is less worrisome than him just hanging out indefinitely in your house.
One piece of advice my mom gave me at that age that did really help, and I still remember is—it is HARD to start over in a new place post-college. She remembered how hard it was for her, and I remember for me. Making friends, figuring out a new city, etc is just a struggle and it’s very different than college (where most kids are in the same boat). Good luck to him!! And to you, too!
I second the suggestion to gift him with six months of renters insurance and sending a box of basic needs to arrive the day he arrives. I hope you can sleep!
My parents packed me up for college with everything but the kitchen sink. I didn’t mind it at the time, but now that I’m a parent myself I don’t know how to feel about it. Clearly they didn’t feel I could be trusted to set up a basic living situation, but they also didn’t take the time to walk me through any of it either so I could learn. If you have been narrating to Rob all these years how to do things, he has picked something up even if he hasn’t packed those items or crossed off that thing from the list. I felt totally unable to fly the nest after college alone, so him
having the courage to do this on his own is the mission more than half done.
Yes this is such a good point. Unless we give our kids the skills to develop their own independence, it’s going to be a big old shock for them when they fly the nest! I would not say I’m a micro-manager of my kids’ live but I definitely think that even at their current ages (they’re 6 and nearly 3) there are things I could be doing more proactively to encourage independence. If you read Emily Henderson’s blog, in amongst the interiors stuff are lots of parenting bits about this and she works really hard at it, I find it fascinating.
Anyway! I know from years of reading here that Swistle has been explaining how real life works to her kids all the way through, so I’m sure Rob will be FINE.
Yay, Mama! You did a great job raising an independent son who can confidently set out on his own. Nice work!
Three months after my college graduation, I flew overseas to a place where no one spoke much English. I had a job lined up and got an apartment sight unseen. It was exciting and fantastic and stretching and character building. It must have been really hard on my parents. My dad just mentioned this week, “Remember when you called us 20 some years ago, asking why we let you move to XYZ. Ha. Like we ever had a say.”
I remember that phone call. I had just played a game of charades with the person who turned on the gas, to understand how to light the pilot light attached to the shower. You needed to do this every time you took a shower to use gas to heat the water. I was tired after an international flight and unable to communicate well. And you know, I was likely to blow myself up trying to heat the shower water. I took a cold shower and called my parents. And they can still laugh about it 20 years later. And everything was fine! He will be fine. And I hope you can remain calm and not gleeful during any similar phone calls from a tired and vulnerable Rob!
I’m not a parent but I understand how much this impacts you both emotionally and physically (pangs of love/loss and twinges of WHAT IF panic are physical things!), especially because he is your Oldest, and has been First for so many things. He will be capital F Fine because you raised him. <3
I feel like the kids who's launch from the nest has been significantly delayed/altered by COVID face the most challenges, esp. with parents whose anxieties are already through the roof from just surviving the past couple of years. Eternal Vigilance with Bursts of Sustained Panic is a hard cycle to break. Some kids will need some more time in the nest, while others will want to make sure their wings work.
Jesus crap, parenting is hard. It’s hard when they don’t ever want to leave home. It’s hard when they leave home precipitously with NO DANGED PLAN. I love your calculated breeziness. I hope it all works out amazingly for him and you can’t remember why you ever worried. With just enough bumps in the road that he has to ask your advice and be grateful for it.
I always mean to leave Amazon reviews more than I do – appreciate the reminder. It is a dumb system, but not doing it doesn’t punish the dumb system, it punishes the poor people at its mercy. I hate that.
This was me when I graduated from college! I moved to New York and figured I would just get a job! And an apartment that wasn’t my friend’s closet! But I totally didn’t. I made some really bad choices and blew a bunch of money and eventually went back to a previous job in a more reasonable city and ended up loving it. I learned so much by falling flat on my face and I only had myself to blame because I had no interest in anything my lovely, helpful parents had tried to tell me. Sleeping on the floor and going without toilet paper for a while won’t kill you but it will teach you life skills courtesy of natural consequences.
The things that my parents did insist on were: health insurance (even just a bare bones emergency plan), cell phone plan that they paid for in case of emergency, and no new credit cards. Basically don’t die or go into crippling debt! Everything else will sort itself out.