I had my annual physical recently, and I mentioned that my knees, which have always been A Bit Dicey, are hurting more now, and hurting more consistently, and starting to be less of an occasional thing and more of a constant thing. And my doctor, whom I really like and don’t want to switch away from (I very dislike when I have a Doctor-Related Complaint and the only advice is “Switch doctors!!”—as if there were a limitless supply of local doctors, and as if there were a doctor out there who would not occasionally merit complaint), seemed to be saying that that sucked and that there wasn’t really anything to be done, and that this was just how things would be from now on, except that it would probably get worse with time. She said if it seemed briefly worse, like due to extra work/activity, I could take acetaminophen/ibuprofen/naproxen for a few days at a time but not longer; she said I could try stretching before going to work; she said I could try using a knee brace. She said if I started walking differently to favor my knees, I would probably start to experience hip and back pain; I said “Oh! I AM having some hip and back pain!,” and her response was the equivalent of “Yep.” I am left feeling as if there is not much medical science can do for painful joints, and that this is just my life now. IS this how it is? Middle-aged adults get joint pain and then live with it forever?
Well. There are worse things. One of our middle-aged cats had a kidney just…fail. Like, stop working and shrivel up. Apparently that can happen. The vet was almost shruggy about it—like, well, he has two, so, there’s still one working. Meanwhile I am ready for an entire investigative miniseries on WHY DID IT DO THAT? Looking it up online was not a good idea: a kidney can fail if a cat eats something it shouldn’t have eaten, such as certain plants or household chemicals. So this might be our oblivious fault. Kidneys can also fail because mortal living things have parts that can be defective or can reach their own mortality points. So it might be his kidney’s fault, or his genes’ fault, in which case we would probably say fate rather than fault.
Paul, in an effort to interact with housework, has purchased a robot vacuum cleaner. Well, two: the first one was a very basic model, meant to show us whether or not this was something we wanted in our lives. The answer was “Yes, but this particular one is Too Stupid.” Paul has purchased an upgrade, the kind that won’t fall down stairs, and makes its own map and can be told which parts of the map to ignore. It is still Fairly Stupid. It is currently verrrrrrry carefully, in a thousand tiny little inch-by-inch moves, avoiding my computer chair, which it thinks is a permanent obstruction. I tried to move out of its way so it could go under my desk, but it declined to believe that the chair had moved, and just kept tracing around where it thought it was. Earlier it was obsessed, absolutely obsessed, with getting to the string of lights it has tangled with numerous times, despite us attempting to block access.
What I mostly want is for this thing to run when PAUL is home to supervise it, but when I am NOT, so that I am not driven up a wall by its endless inefficient bumbling and periodic cord tangling and “Robot trapped!” announcements when it is just between two chairs. On principle, I do very little robot interference: if it tangles, it tangles; if it stops, it stops. Paul has indicated that he considers himself to be handling the vacuuming, and I am happy to give him credit for it, as long as it affects my life the same way it would affect it if Paul were using a traditional vacuum clearer: i.e., I might be bothered by the sound, or by something bumping into my computer chair, but I would not have to follow Paul around and manage the vacuum cleaner cord for him, or prep the rooms to make things easier for him, or untangle something he’d vacuumed up by accident, or in any other way participate in the process.
I know plenty of people who take CBD gummies (not the weed get-you-high kind although I am not bashing that) for aches and pains.
With regards to your knees, I’m not sure if this is exactly the same, but I had a lot of pelvic girdle/hip pain in my second pregnancy, and when I told my OB, she was basically a human shrug emoji. The pain mostly went away after delivery, but it comes back if I walk too far or at a speed faster than toddler (which, since I have a toddler, I don’t do very often). I brought it up to my PCP, and she said I could try pelvic floor physical therapy. When I told the PT what I’ve just told you, she sort of rolled her eyes at my first OB. She said something along the lines of “just because something is ‘normal’ doesn’t mean we can’t make it better”. I’m not sure if knee pain is able to be helped by PT in the same way, but my hip pain is improving already.
I’d second this. It might be a lot of work and something you will have to keep up with exercises with but some physical therapy is worth a shot. I’ve had a lot of hip pain and back problems since having kids and improving my stability and core through strength training has fixed it.
Chiming in that PT exercises have nearly eradicated helped my back and hip pain. Totally worth it.
Knee pain IS helped by PT and I was just coming to recommend it. By strengthening muscles around my knee, stretching tight muscles and learning to pay better attention to my posture and gait I was able to significantly decrease my rheumatoid arthritis related knee and back pain. Also, as my Dr of PT sister says “just because something is common, doesn’t mean it’s normal.” She feels this way particularly about female incontinence as we age, something she can very much help with no matter your age
Agreeing on the PT! My husband complained about his knee hurting and was sent to PT. The PT told him that based on their exam and his reports it could be that he has a small tear, but she can’t see inside his body to confirm so the plan is to strengthen all the muscles in the chain so his knee is more supported and if it still is hurting after that then he gets sent back to his dr so she can refer out for imaging.
So far he’s had one appt and been doing the exercises at home for a week and he already feels like there’s been improvement.
So definitely check in with a PT, they’re awesome!
I am the lucky winner of genetic roulette and have had both knees and a hip replaced by age 60. The typical path is Tylenol/nsaids, then physical therapy, then x-rays. I did physical therapy off and on for ten years before the surgery and it did help.
Sometimes it feels as though, if a doctor cannot FIX an issue him/herself, then that issue is unfixable. Rather than… potentially ameliorated by non-medical alternatives. I say this carefully, as I am not a physician, and because I know and love physicians and 100% believe that most truly do have their patients’ best interests at heart. But. Just because YOU, personally, cannot do something to CURE the thing, does not mean that there aren’t other options to make it BETTER.
This is unhelpful because I don’t have any suggestions. I do, however, have lots of empathy and am happy to chime in with plenty of woe about The Pains of Aging.
I loved this sentence so much: “Meanwhile I am ready for an entire investigative miniseries on WHY DID IT DO THAT?”
And the whole vacuum thing is highly amusing, the way you tell it (like, your description of the vacuum carefully avoiding the chair that you have since moved elsewhere and the repeated tangling in the lights gave me the giggles), although I can see how the dumbness of the robot and Paul’s involvement level could dip right over into irritating REAL QUICK.
I am seconding the suggestion of seeing if PT can help the knee-hip-back issue.
I’m so sorry about your cat’s kidney.
And I haven’t gotten a robot vacuum because I am allergic to cats, so I do not have the ultimate reason for having a robot vacuum, which is having the cat ride on it like a landscaper with a riding mower.
Haha Liz, that made me laugh.
I had my (human) infant ride ours and it remains one of my favorite parenting moments, and is definitely the only joy to robot vacuum has brought me.
Maybe this won’t make much sense if you don’t know Achewood (a defunct web comic about anthropomorphic cats), but I’m going to leave these here…
Cat demands Roombas as payment
Cat receives Roombas
Cat and friends reenact history
and a movie
with Roombas
I really really recommend either physical therapy OR just looking up some exercises on the good old internet. I do a lot of my knee exercises before I get out of bed, tighten my thighs for 10 seconds at a time, three sets of ten. Leg lifts, I lie on my back and pull my heel to my butt, three sets of ten. I do a shit ton of squats. I really think you can make it better by strengthening the muscles around your knees. I’m kind of mad at your doctor for not even saying that!
She did sort of, but we’d just talked about my job, which is like 3.5 hours of leg exercises (with continual squats) four times a week, and is probably a significant source of the knee pain. So she was focusing more on what ELSE could we work on.
PT is actually specific exercises focusing on muscles that need strengthening. When I was in my twenties, fit and very physically active, I suffered from a lot of joint pain due to hyper flexibility. PT really helped ( but it took a while to find someone who knew what they were doing, you should get recommendations).
I am also having pain issues related to middle age, so I’m right there with you. I found this blog entry by Dr. Jen Hunter (OB/GYN) to be helpful in that it at least explains what’s going on and gave me hope that things might improve after menopause: https://vajenda.substack.com/p/muscle-and-joint-pain-in-menopause?s=r
I have started taking omega- 3 fish oil capsules (I get them at Costco) 2-3 times a day and drinking a lot more water in an effort to help joint pain as I read it helps with inflammation. It seems to be helping me- it might be something to try!
See a physical therapist, ideally one with the word “functional” somewhere in their description. My knee issues went away entirely with PT, but it took finding a sports one who focused on functional movement. Doctors, at least in my experience, are not great at this sort of thing. And many PTs aren’t, either. My knee issues were caused by certain muscles not stepping up, leaving others to overdo in compensation. The PT gave me exercises and stretches to activate and strengthen the slacker muscles and relax the ones that were overtightened.
If you want to check out a stopgap Youtube PT while you’re waiting to get in with someone in person, you might look at Dr. Jo’s channel. I haven’t looked at her knee stuff, but her 5-min real-time neck routine helped relieve some severe and ongoing neck pain I had during lockdown.
I have been having knee pain lately also. Middle age is not for the weak. (Well, I am weak so… maybe not for me.) I think mine is due to recent weight gain. Another thing I feel like is out of my control. But, thanks to your kind readers, I may just look into PT or at least a few exercises to strengthen my muscles.
I did the exact thing as you and Paul and first bought a dumb robot vacuum. I was concerned it was something that I would not use and would give up on. However, it was too dumb and I did get a smarter one. It is mostly fine. It gets stuck a lot less often than the dumb one. And, I look at it as better than the no vacuuming that was happening before.
Oh, dear, the husband and the robot vacuum conundrum. We got a Labrador retriever a few years ago, and my husband, (retired, therefore does most of the housework) complained so incessantly, about the all the dog hair he has to clean up, that our grown children chipped in and bought him a vacuum robot AS A BIRTHDAY/CHRISTMAS PRESENT! Understandably, he refused to use the thing. Recently, our regular vacuum broke and we had no choice but to employ the robot. Husband has embraced the little tyke and sets him off in one closed room a day.
My mom had a similar issue where she told her doctor about her joint pain and he was like, “well that happens as you age” and we had a discussion afterwards about how doctors are less likely to do something about women’s health issues (especially pain) and she needs to go back and advocate for herself because when men go to the doctor with problems in their downstairs they don’t get told “well that happens as you age” they get a prescription for pills to correct the issue. So she went back and he referred her for tests and to a pain management specialist (which has a long wait list but is at least better than, “guess you’ll just be in pain for the rest of your life”.
I’ll chime in on a few comments of reach out to other health practitioners re: knee pain. FWIW I have a degree in kinesiology and understand the physiology of this stuff. A physiotherapist, kinesiologist, occupational therapist, or even a GOOD personal trainer or other variation of sports doctor could be of help. (And don’t be afraid to ask for a referral if required by your insurance – I’m in Canada so don’t understand how that works for y’all).
I was experiencing knee pain during marathon training years ago (HA! that was terrible, never again – this comment is making me sound like a skinny, bouncy sporty person and I assure you I am NOT) that really had to do with tight hamstrings, limited ankle mobility, and a difference in hip flexibility (caused by weak glutes) and the professional I worked with was able to give me exercises and stretches to address those areas which in turn made my knees improve.
Also robot vacuums UGH. We have 2 dogs, 2 cats and an 8 year old boy in a tiny house so we’re ALWAYS vacuuming. I came into the relationship with a robot vacuum (named Fluffy) that my partner begged us to set up despite my cautions that it required a different kind of maintenance than our regular vacuum. (Note: our tiny house takes 5 minutes to vacuum and 10 minutes to sweep from top to bottom). He usually does the majority of the floor cleaning tasks. Anyway, using Fluffy requires us to not be home (because of the above mentioned characters), close the bedroom doors (cords and kid toys to eat that are not mine so I refuse to pick up), pick up bathmats, block the kitchen door, and generally pick up wires, cords, toys, shoes and the other detritus for it to work. Well, I’m the last one to leave for work and thus doing these and starting Fluffy falls to me. All of which takes just as much time as just vacuuming, which is generally not one of my household tasks. Needless to say, the robot vacuum goes pretty unused in our house and my partner has learned to stop asking.
“All of which takes just as much time as just vacuuming” Yes. This is what my robot vacuum is collecting dust.
Our robot vacuum is ALSO named Fluffy! The kids named it years ago!
I don’t know if anyone will see this as I’m commenting late, but we have an older Anker brand robot vacuum, and while it can get tangled in cords it doesn’t learn spaces as well as yours, but ALSO doesn’t fall down the stairs (usually; there was one incident that I don’t think was Fluffy’s fault). I find that I like the robot vacuum because it forces us to keep crap off the floors, and also I just let it run and while it’s less efficient, at least I don’t have to do it. Our main problem is finding open wall space for it to plug into.
Both medical professionals SHOULD have been nicer about things. You are presenting them with issues which are within their expertise and they should have answered your questions and concerns with more than a shrug. I love my GP for my health issues that they can run blood tests for, but trying to get an answer for a chronic pain issue (likely fibromyalgia) has been like pulling teeth, even with the luxury of being able to change doctors and practices. No advice, just commiseration.
Joint pain: Another person agreeing that PT is awesome! I’m not a medical person, but I’ve been having knee pain for several years and I’m in my 30s, so the only advice I have is the glucosamine/chondroitin tablets have worked for my knees. I notice a difference when I stop taking them. I take 1 tablet of the 3 a day kind, so a bottle lasts a while.
Cat kidneys: yeah, they can do that. My cat had a hereditary issue and one kidney just… stopped working when he was about 7. He lived to be 16 with a heart condition as well and had good quality of life, so it’s not an immediate issue. He also chewed on electrical cords, loved licking plastic bags, and had tinsel poop multiple times. What I’m saying is, even when there is nothing hazardous in your house (I never had tinsel, so I REALLY don’t know where that came from) cat kidneys just fail sometimes. If you haven’t had to rush him in to the ER for eating lilies or a major infection recently, it’s likely just a genetic predisposition that’s been going on for several months to years. Cats hide their medical problems and kidney signs tend to show outwardly at an advanced stage (when both kidneys are at 35% function or less!) so there was nothing you could do to prevent this or intervene. Routine tests can’t see early kidney failure, so your vet wouldn’t have seen it coming either. (source: had multiple cats with kidney problems)
Is there a chiropractor nearby? That has solved a lot of issues that I would have never guessed. (chronic ear infections, stomach issues, knee pain)
Omega-3 is good. Condroitina glucosamina was recommended by our Canadian friends and we both take it. It appears to help.
Rosie argues with the curtain in my office and ALSO bumps dumbly into my desk chair. (In addition to the stools at the counter, lol) My FAVORITE is when the battery dies while she’s under the bed though. Sigh.
I’m cursed by hypermobility, and dislocated by knee three times by the time I was 30, and then had a pretty complex surgery to replace the ligaments with bits of my hamstring.
What I’ve discovered since then is that to improve your knee strength, you really have to do… I don’t know how you describe it? Weight-bearing physio? Basically if you stand on a step and bend your knee with the other leg dangling over in the air over the next step, and you repeat that every day for months, the difference in knee strength is pretty astonishing.
I have a knee strengthening exercise routine I cobbled together from watching YouTube videos and that helps but it helps the most when I’m consistent about which I’m not so great at.
I have a robot vacuum too but I only use it in rooms that are easy to clear and then I shut the door while it does its thing. It’s too much of a pain to do the whole house because of the reasons you described.
I’m sorry to hear about your kitty! Some of them just don’t have good kidneys for genetic reasons, same with their teeth. I highly doubt it’s anything you did especially since they’re indoors.
PT has absolutely saved me twice. The first time I tore my rotator cuff and never thought my shoulder would recover. After several weeks of PT it improved significantly. The second time I pinched a nerve in my lower back that hurt worse than anything I’ve ever felt (doing what you ask – who knows? I literally did nothing and it just went bananas. Aging is some garbage, but I digress). Because it happened in the depths of covid I couldn’t get to PT for months and by that time the pain had radiated down my leg into my calf. Two months of PT and it’s better. In short: I’m here to ask you if you’ve heard about our lord and savior PT.
Cat related comment: last month our 5 year old cat died suddenly – as in we couldn’t get him to the vet 3 miles away in time. I was so worried that he’d died because he’d eaten something dangerous or got into something toxic in our house, so in addition to being absolutely devastated that he died I was working up some serious guilt. This is going to sound utterly bizarre but it was such a relief when our vet told us that he’d suffered a massive heart attack that we couldn’t have known was coming. There was nothing we did wrong or could have done in time. The point is that sometimes cats just have weird medical stuff and it has nothing to do with anything you did or could have done. I’m hoping your cat continues to live a long, happy life on the one kidney. One is enough.
I have a book recommendation for you to consider: Younger Next Year for Women. It is a little annoying that two men wrote a book about women’s health, but I found it really thought-provoking and motivating. It’s about protecting your health and mobility and well-being in the last third of your life, and they talk a lot about the way that the world kind of shrugs off health issues in women and says, “Yeah, well, what did you expect from middle age?”
I sympathize with your joint pain but have no advice (and it seems a lot of people gave great advice).
The robot vacuum – I bought one a few years ago and LOVED it…when I was at work in the office. I cannot stand to listen to it for however long it takes to vacuum the house – so I haven’t really used it since the pandemic began. But I noticed someone commented that they close it in a different room each day…that may be a good (partial) solution for me.
I am pretty sure based on what you’ve said that we may have the same robot. The Fairly Stupid is, to us, worth the convenience with two dogs in the house. However word of advice. It has a mopping robot cousin and it’s just plain stupid stupid. In case it saves anyone the trouble.
Piggybacking onto the PT comments. It is a HUGE pain in the neck and expensive as hell but I saw 2 PTs who were horrible before finally finding one who helped me live pain free. I think what helped was finding a DPT at a place owned and staffed entirely by women. It was a hassle but now I can take my kids to the zoo or for a walk without worrying that I’ll be in so much pain that I can’t make it back to the car/house (I’m 37).
Ymmv – I developed shoulder pain, felt like maybe from awkward work angle (early WFH poor positioning of laptop/keyboard/monitor) to the point I could barely Wipe myself and woke up every night because of pain if I roll on it wrong. It was constant and hurt a lot.
Doctor sent me for X-ray, said it was arthritis and that was just my new life…here’s a large rubber band thing and a print-out of exercises…good luck.
And I didn’t start supplements as a way to relieve pain, just a choice I made around the same time – and I started taking 2 different ones at the same time so I don’t know which one helped.
I started taking Complex B tablets and a combination Magnesium tablet (has other things, very large) and in 2 weeks or so pain in shoulder started improving. It’s been 2 years and the pain is 99% gone. I don’t know how or why – but it’s remarkable.
I’m 56 and I know my doctor was of the view “things happen when you’re old” and offered no advice on improvement. Don’t know if this information is helpful, but throwing it out there.
I can give links to what I take, if you’re interested.
Kim
I was just wondering how you found out about the cat’s kidney if he can get by with one. Were there symptoms?
I’m sorry about the knees. I have one that’s bothered me ever since a fall several years ago, but it’s intermittent and not bad enough for me to do anything about it.
My husband and I started adding sunflower lecithin to our morning smoothies, and I can feel the difference in my knees. Without it, my left knee feels like it’s trying to pop out of joint when I walk for any distance (like hallways at work).
Also, I recently discovered that there is a right way and wrong way to squat. The wrong way feels like my knees are going to blow out. The right way strengthens the muscles around the knee joint. FWIW.
Cat kidneys are a weird weak point — kind of like human knees. Something that helped our senior cat live until 21 (or it didn’t HURT) was giving him multiple sources of clean water, so he could keep flushing his last 12 kidney cells. Our vet suggested that around age 8-12 for cats we make quality of life adjustments — more access to water, senior cat food, dental care, and access to secure sleeping spots that do not require the ability to leap.
I love how you noted that Paul makes an effort to interact with housework, not that he’s making an effort to actually do housework.
OMG!!! I have been dying, DYING, to tell y’all my robot vacuum story. But I didn’t want to just randomly type a novel on an unrelated topic on earlier posts.
A bit of backstory — vacuuming is one of the few (very few) jobs that my husband does (which he chose when we first moved in together over 2 decades ago). I don’t know if my tolerance for pet hair tumbleweeds has gotten less or if he really is going longer between vacuums but I find myself vacuuming more and more often.
A couple of months ago, husband was telling me about a twitter friend who was evangelizing about their robot vacuum. And husband chimed in on the tweet with praise for our pool vacuum robot. Which does make the pool much cleaner and nicer but that’s because the robot does a much better job than husband ever did with the manual pool vacuum. So I mentioned that I had been thinking about getting a robot vacuum for the house. I should have known by how excited he got that I would eventually get one.
Guess what I got last week for my birthday? Dude bought me a robot vacuum that replaces a chore that HE’S supposed to do. Yay. He’s mentioned twice that the robot could run! overnight! in the basement! and no one will hear it! It’s still sitting on the coffee table. Because I, of course, have to set it up since it is my present. That’s on tomorrow’s to do list.
I’m sure he has no idea why I’m not more enthusiastic about the vacuum, especially since I said I was thinking about getting one.
Omg! This could happen at my house. If it were large enough for a robot vacuum, which it is not. Takes 10 minutes to do a passable job on the entire downstairs.
To be fair: I have given item to take care of chore as a gift because I wanted not me to do the chore. And because I’ve received some doozy gifts.
That’s why I was thinking about the robot vacuum. Then maybe the vacuuming would get done without *me* doing it.
NO. No. For his next birthday, he is getting GORGEOUS birthstone earrings, in your birthstone.
(Or, if you think he would prefer it, a device that replaces a chore you normally do.)
YES! Present them to him with the same enthusiasm he presented the robot vacuum, then say, “huh, our gifts seem to have gotten swapped! Would you like me to take these gorgeous earrings and you can have this lovely robot vacuum?” I am nothing if not petty.
This basically happened on our 10th wedding anniversary. Kids were 4 and 1 and husband had been complaining of not having time to do things he wanted to do. So I planned out several Saturdays where I had the kids out of the house all day. And that was my gift to him. He got me an iPod which was an upgrade from the iPod he had. I mean, sure, I paid attention to him when he rhapsodized about his iPod but I really don’t remember ever saying I wanted one. While I think he was appreciative the time alone, I truly think he would have preferred the iPod. While I *definitely* would have preferred the time alone.
Knee pain is not inevitable. No one has suggested an orthopedist, so I will. I’d get a work up on your knees – because there are a few knee issues that could benefit from treatment other than PT. Ask the ortho for advice on therapies, supplements, shoes (my knee pain evaporated with different sneakers), and PT. Our ortho prescribed massages which somehow got covered by insurance because the ortho said it was needed.
I feel dumb for not knowing this but… What is an orthopedist? How do you find an orthopedist? Do you need a referral from a primary care doc? Can you Google “orthopedist in” (my area)? Are they medical doctors, or chiropractors, or D.O.’s, or something else?
Joint pain is not something that should be ignored at any age… no one should be in pain just because they got older. Find an orthopedist… they specialize in joint/bone issues. They can give you a proper diagnosis and get you to the right physical therapy for whatever’s causing your pain. My orthopedist is my favorite doctor because he’s fixed so many things my regular doctor just went 🤷🏻♀️ at.
Mine was frozen shoulder. I think I pulled something around my shoulder/upper arm area– and I babied it. Didn’t move it much because I thought it might need to rest. This was Dec 2020 and COVID surge was starting up and I didn’t see a doctor, haven’t gone to my Zumba and yoga classes. Long story short, the best treatment for it was movement. Many of the exercises my PT had me do were things we did in my restorative yoga. It made me wonder, “Had COVID not happened and I didn’t stop with my yoga classes, would I have had to deal with frozen shoulder?” It was painful; I needed a cortisone shot to take away the swelling and pain so I could start PT. I hope you find a good solution to your knee problem.
RE Knee Pain: it does not have to be like this:
I do not know if there is something similar in English but this works really well in these cases:
https://workittraining.de
He is also on Instagram all in German unfortunately, but it has to do with posture and building up/maintaining your muscle strength!
Thanks to all the commenters who suggest PT! I’m going to do that for my achy hip!
I’ll also chime in that a few years back I started putting collagen powder in my coffee or smoothies every day because my sister told me it was helping her regrow hair she had lost. I was fairly desperate to do something about the balding that was also getting a big shrug from the doctors, so I decided to give it a try. As it happens, it did not help me grow my hair, but when I stopped taking it I realized that the achy feeling in my knees when I got to the top of the stairs was coming back. Sadly, I hadn’t even noticed it had gone until it had come back. Two weeks after going back on the collagen it was gone again. Now as long as I stick to the collagen I find my knees are pretty happy.