I come from a Mike Pence-y kind of Christian background, the kind where it is understood that the apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Thessalonians about “avoiding the appearance of evil” in order to explain why teenage girls can’t have platonic male friends in their rooms and adult men shouldn’t be alone with their female co-workers. So I was a little worried when I wrote the Emails with an Ex post that some of the lingering effects of such an upbringing might be seeping through, and that I might come across as wayyyyyyy overthinking a situation that most people would be way less unnecessarily hand-wringy about. But I needn’t have worried!
If you remember, the two options were: (1) maybe not respond to the news about his not-doing-well marriage yet, and just respond to everything else for now, or (2) respond to it, but make it neutral and unencouraging and something his wife could definitely read. But some commenters went for the exciting and not-on-the-table Option Three, which looked something like:
Swistle’s Ex-Boyfriend, writing the way he has once or twice a year for decades: *news about Kid 1, and a request for my input on that kid’s relationship with a kid from a strict Christian family like he remembers mine was; news about Kid 2 and a photo of that kid in a sport uniform; general chatting about how the pandemic has affected their city and their household, and a mention of how he might coincidentally be moving soon to a different, safer city, because his marriage isn’t going well; an update on a health issue he told me about last time, plus news about a new health issue; update on his job; casual, normal sign-off*
Swistle: “NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN.” *blocks him on Facebook, filters his email address to trash, never explains why, lets him wonder forever what terrible misunderstanding occurred*
My goodness, how thrilling! I can think of no better way to take a slightly delicate situation and turn it into a totally unnecessary GIANT DRAMA FIREBALL. So…I mean, obviously I’m not doing that! Clearly there was some miscommunication involved, perhaps combined with misunderstanding (Paul ((not the apostle Paul but my own Paul)) wondered if this is the kind of thing where it’s nearly impossible for empathetic people not to picture THEMSELVES and their OWN exes, instead of the actual people involved), perhaps combined with some of the same type of upbringing I grew up with—but this is not a threatening, weird relationship with someone who is smoldering with feelings for me. If he DOES have any lingering feelings, he has long since stopped expressing them to me, at which point they became Not My Business, which is as it should be. If he WERE to someday cross a line to the point where I needed to end the friendship, I would certainly explain WHY before throwing a smoke bomb and vanishing forever!
Back when neither of us were married, when we were so young our frontal lobes hadn’t even finished developing, he was indeed rather persistent about thinking/saying that we should get back together: our break-up was his fault, and when he went on to date other people, he found he very much regretted his choices—but by then I had gotten over him and felt nothing but relief to be just friends. Even at his most persistent, I didn’t feel threatened or in peril of any sort, emotional or otherwise; it was just kind of exasperating and pitiful, that’s all. After I was brutally direct and clear with him about exactly how zero our chances were of getting back together, he thanked me for it, and said he hadn’t been able to move on while thinking there was still hope, but now he could. And then he did.
He does still say little things from time to time, nothing that would have to be a line-crossing thing between every set of old exes—but he is as I’ve mentioned a little bit dumb, and also he’s the kind of guy who likes truly sappy romantic movies/songs (the movie Somewhere in Time with Jane Seymour and Christopher Reeve; any Mariah Carey song), and talk-show episodes about high school sweethearts who reunite in a nursing home after being widowed, and news stores about couples married 70 years who die within a few minutes of each other—so I just like to make sure I don’t give him any fodder for that mill, that’s all. Plus, I like to make sure I justify his wife’s trust, and of course Paul’s trust, so that everyone feels comfortable with this friendship I enjoy having as part of my life.
There seemed to be some concern that any trouble with his marriage meant I was in some sort of new, fresh danger: that he would now suddenly escalate things, or that he would want to lean on me during the divorce, or that he would have feelings/expectations. I am not sure I can adequately express how calm and unstressed I feel about being able to handle any of those things if they did happen. Just for example, let’s say he wanted me to give him tons of attention and support during his divorce. Doing that doesn’t appeal to me at all, and I don’t feel any obligation or pressure to do that, and I don’t feel any stress about the idea of saying so to him. (Note: but he has not asked for that, and he hasn’t escalated contact.) Or let’s say he started suddenly pressuring me to leave my long marriage and be with him, now that he was free: doing that doesn’t appeal to me at all, and hearing it wouldn’t please me, and I feel no stress at the idea of telling him to stop being stupid, and I feel fully capable of figuring out what to do next if he DIDN’T stop being stupid. (Note: but he has not said anything of the sort, and he did not give the news in an even remotely flirty or inappropriate or hopeful way.) Going to DEFCON 2 because of the possibility that he MIGHT do some of these things feels like perhaps this pandemic has us all in a heightened state of emotions right now.
ANYWAY. If you want an update, what I DID do was write back to him saying I was sorry to hear he and his wife were struggling, and that I hoped things would work out for the best. I included that in a whole normal email with updates about my kids, and general chatting about how the pandemic has affected our city and my household, and an update about my job, and an update about a health situation, and a response about his kid’s issue dating a strict Christian.
Well. Maybe let’s talk about something else now, maybe not about exes! Actually, no: let’s still talk about exes. I would like to hear LOTS OF STORIES from other people who have a nice, friendly, non-fraught relationship with an ex! It can be your own story, or a story about someone you know. It seems like we could stand a little more normalizing of that sort of thing.
I think you handled that well! I don’t have any relationships with exes because I got married at 20 and my other boyfriends were just dumb high school boys who I had no interest in continuing contact with. 😂 I do see one of them occasionally when we go back to TX but we’ve never said more than a passing hello to each other. I think it’s nice when exes can be friendly, especially if you dated a long time.
I am going to spend the Fourth of July with my ex-husband and his new husband, so I’d say I have a pretty good relationship with my ex. Ha. I wrote about the strange path to that point here: https://apnews.com/bd2ccd5ac52f6a9af6fedcc2706fbcf9
That was a beautiful essay. Thank you for sharing it.
Thank you!
We have a very friendly relationship with one of my husband’s exes. They were from the same long time group of friends who met in elementary school. They dated at the end of high school and beginning of University. I didn’t get together with my husband until years later, we were just friends in University. I met her when he dated her back then. By the time we began dating, she was seeing someone else and they were back to just old friends in the same old group. She came to my wedding, we went to hers. We see her once or twice a year when that group reunites and catches up. We are friendly on Facebook. It’s very pleasant and not weird. It is hardly even brought up that they dated way back when.
I have blocked my only seriously dated ex on social media but it’s because of the kind of person he is— raised similarly to you and when we broke up he accused me of leading him into sin for thinking impure thoughts about me. So.
I did date off and on other men who later came out as gay. The one I was the most serious about died in 2007 of one of those freaky heart conditions that suddenly kills young athletic people.
My husband is Facebook friends with the woman he dated in high school although he has her muted as she’s become some Fox News conspiracy theorist. He’s blocked the woman he dated in college. He does continue to be friends with the woman he crushed on all through high school— the one he regrets not asking out. They exchange chatty Facebook messages and when she and her husband came to our area for another reason we drove up to have lunch with them. Turns out her estranged sister lives a mile from us (they grew up 400 miles away so this is odd).
I have a great friendship with an ex! This is an ex who wrote me a sappy poem after we broke up and I crumpled it up IN HIS FACE to show how done with him I was. It apparently worked because now he’s one of my greatest old college friends, who I always make a point to see when I go back to town. He’s married and I’m married and we joke about when we dated and there are no underlying feelings that I’m aware of. I would hope he would tell me if his marriage were on the rocks. Cutting off contact when your ex is going through a tough time sure seems like twisting the knife, and cruel.
In college I was involved in a big dramatic Thing where I wound up choosing to date the man who is now my husband and to stop dating another guy. But a few years later that guy came to our wedding, and nine years after that he helped us move, and we continue to have funny cordial conversations via text when one of us thinks of something the other would find interesting (say, a few times per year). We see him when we visit NYC (say, every couple of years) and he always seems to enjoy spending time with my husband and children.
Dramatic Thing twins! I too broke up with a guy to be with my now husband. Unfortunately for this comments section, the resulting drama was non-amicable. Although, hubby also broke up with someone to be with me, and his ex did come to our wedding. So we tried some of each I guess.
Because “avoiding the appearance of impropriety” is a major professional tenet in my industry, I follow that idea in all areas of my life. It avoids more problems than it causes. There is no religious basis for it, and that type of religiosity was not part of my upbringing. I understand and respect your course of action, though, and I think you continue to behave above reproach! As far as I can tell, you have not intensified the exchange, which keeps it at a friendly and platonic level comfortable for everyone. I would be interested to know how/if he responds?
My cousin and her husband divorced years ago (due to his extensive cheating) but they have kids and thus they are still in each others’ lives. She teases him about things on Facebook and he teases her right back; from the outside, at least, it seems like a very peaceful resolution to the situation.
Oh I LOVE to see that kind of thing!! I am friend with one member of a divorced couple, and she and her ex both post pictures of their kids and always tag each other, and I just love that. Sometimes it’ll be an old picture with a caption like “[Tagged name of ex], remember this?? They were so little!!” or whatever. I just love it.
So glad it all worked out and any weird vibes we got about the situation were unwarranted.
I haven’t stayed friends with any ex’s as I tend to get “the repulsion” after a breakup, want nothing to do with them and can’t understand why I ever had any attraction to the person in the first place. I’m sure that’s healthy, right? However one of my best friends is great friends with her ex and has been for over 20 years now. They are friends with each other’s spouses and do things together as couples regularly. I think it’s safe to say they both feel like they dodged a bullet and know they would never work together romantically. Its honestly a little weird to even call them ex’s because they have been friends for far longer than their romance.
Laughing heartily at “the repulsion.” ME TOO! If I broke up with them, I just can’t deal with seeing them again (repulsion, guilt). If they broke up with me, I feel embarrassed and self conscious. Oh to be urbane and sophisticated and relaxed! It’s an ideal I admired but just can’t perform!
“The Repulsion” YEEEEESSSSSSS
Oof same, but I attribute it to the fact that I tended to date people LONG past the point when it was clear that we should not be together so by the time we broke up I was SO DONE with everything about them. Also, I never dated someone that I was good friends with first so I had nothing (or very little) to return to after the romantic part of the relationship was over. In short: the repulsion is real for me
My parents got divorced in the past few years and are still great friends. When she makes a big dinner, she calls him to come get leftovers. He mows her lawn occasionally. It’s really quite amicable.
My parents are like this too and it makes things so much better for their children and grandchildren. Though, neither has started dating (it’s been 5+ years) so I worry it could change if/when that happens.
I want to hear about amicable breakups later in life.
Is this just not wanting the other person to be around annoying you, or what?
My parents have done this! After 40 years together they were just… getting on each other’s nerves. All the time. So my dad moved into an apartment a few miles away! They still have most of their social lives together; my dad still goes over to my mom’s nearly every weekend (well, pre-pandemic) to help with small chores or house upkeep; and when they start to annoy each other, my dad just goes back to his nice little apartment and it doesn’t escalate into simmering resentment anymore. It’s fantastic for ALL of us!
I LOVE this!!!
Gotta admit, having my own small apartment to retreat to seems especially appealing during these days of So. Much. Togetherness. And I get along extremely well with my husband generally.
Respectfully, I think I was a little misconstrued as being super dramatic; a lot of reasonable people seemed to agree with my advice to cut it off. My intention was basically to suggest that it is unkind to maintain contact with someone hung up on you who is super vulnerable and possibly looking for a rebound. But if he’s truly over you, too, then it all worked out well!
Anyway! Quarantine has made one of my amicable exes reach out; we’re both currently single, and we’re kind of getting close again. We shall see about how terrible or not *that* idea is.
And NYC is opening up a bit! Slowly! Pretty responsibly, it seems! BUT I’m a professor, and it looks like my university is gonna be remote in the Fall at least for a few months if not the whole semester, which is a big fat bummer. I know the students hate it, and I’m sympathetic, but I’m also feeling sorry for myself a bit because it’s a PITA to teach my classes online. And frankly it’s even more of a PITA to not know if it’s online the whole semester or just the first half. Especially since you know they’re going to want us to offer both options, which is 2x the work per class. Also. I’m sick of the terms asynchronous and synchronous, but such is life right now.
Do you have any news on your kids’ colleges?
Happy July, everybody!
Not my ex, but my mother’s.
I grew up in a fairly small town that had one grocery store. When I was maybe 8 years old, my mom, two brothers and I went there and happened across some guy coming out of the store that my mom stopped to chat with. They asked each other about various relatives and how they were doing, and it was obvious they knew each other but I’d never seen him before.
Afterward I asked my mom who he was and she said “Oh that’s my ex-husband”. “You were MARRIED before dad??!” “Oh yes, I thought you knew”.
Turns out, they were high school sweethearts. Got married straight out of high school and mutually decided marriage wasn’t working for them shortly afterward.
They didn’t see each other socially much, but I know my mom went to his mom’s funeral a few years later and every couple years they’d bump into each other (again, small town) and catch up.
I had a conversation with a friend earlier this year – a woman who is my friend because she married a man I went to middle school and high school with, who isn’t my “ex” but I once told him I liked him in 8th grade (his response was, “Cool, I like you too” and then to admit later as an adult that he didn’t realize I meant LIKE liked until years after that). The conversation was kind of touching on rules for conversations with men to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, and she was horrified, and I love her so much for it. Her reaction was,
“You know you can talk to my husband, right? Dear god, please talk to my husband. He needs to talk to people!”
And the truth is I do know I can talk to her husband, because he is not creepy and she is not the jealous type. And I value her as someone MY husband can talk to, because he needs that too (even though there was a year there – over a decade ago – before either of us were married and when both relationships were not looking certain and I had concerns about her enthusiasm for my husband’s jokes).
But I still worry about liking too many pictures in a row of men-whose-wives-I-don’t-know’s-babies, because that’s the way I was raised.
Unrelated, but Swistle brought up MIke Pence, so here goes. Is anyone else really looking forward to the VP debate, in light of Biden’s pledge to choose a female nominee? Pence will have to talk to a woman who is not Mother Pence! It’s lucky for him that they probably won’t be allowed to shake hands.
YES!!!! I hope she smokes him! :)
My friend and her current husband are the godparents of her ex-husband’s children with his current wife. I think it’s adorable.
After years of drama, my folks are now friends. My step-dad will actually drive the 2 hrs every once in a while to visit my dad to hang out and talk cars. My parents are much better as friends than husband-wife.
I am mostly friendly with my exes, but I did have to unfollow 1 due to political differences. (And the 1 called my house AT RANDOM one day almost 18 years ago [we live 10 hours away, he’s never had my phone number–he didnt even leave a msg, but I saw the name on caller ID–and the last email I got from him was several years prior to that and felt a bit too intrusive], so when FB came around, I did NOT accept his friend request.)
So, in college, I “cheated” on my now husband. (There was no sex or even kissing, but it was still enough for a tearful confession on my part). For some crazy reason, I thought the solution to the problem of me developing feelings for a friend while in a long term relationship with my long distance boyfriend was that they had to meet! We would all go out to dinner! And….it worked. Fifteen years later, my husband and my friend get along great. They swap Paul Rudd videos. When we’re in town, my husband happily watches the children so I can go downstairs and meet my friend for a drink at the hotel bar and catch up. When he’s in town, he crashes on our futon.
My husband also gets along great with my only other ex-boyfriend who I’ve stayed in touch with. In fact, I think my husband and I started dating because this ex-boyfriend was part of a conspiracy to invite my husband and I to as many different events together as possible during one winter break twenty years ago. I really value his role in my life as someone who knows me and is rooting for me. (And, ironically, last conversation we had is about how his relationship is probably ending…which if it is, I’m happy to be one of the people who he can talk to about it, and if it isn’t, hopefully his girlfriend is happy he has emotional support that isn’t a new romantic interest).
OMG Paul Rudd videos! The rude ones with close up of his hands??? That sounds like an excellent bromance.
This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWX4GUYGQXQ
My friend was on his way to our other friend’s birthday party, which was Paul Rudd themed and required everyone to attend in a Paul Rudd costume, because her adult life has gone in a much less kid-centric direction than mine. My husband asked if I wanted him to stay with the kids so I could go the party too, and oh my god that is so emphatically not my scene.
Lol!
I got married to my college sweetheart and my three high school boyfriends all came to our wedding. Two of them were best friends with each other (it was a small town, not that many fish in the pond!) and one of them told my mother later than the other had whispered during the ceremony, “It should have been one of us up there with her.” Aw. (but no.)
I’m friends with them on Facebook and we chat occasionally there, but that’s about it. If we happened to be in the same place at the same time we might get coffee or dinner with or without spouses. I like the idea of being friends with exes.
The best ex story I know is that of my aunt; she was married for twenty years, they have two children who are now grown with kids of their own, and you cannot imagine two people more perfectly suited for friendship. They travel to see their children together, attend grandkids’ events together, and have even joked about taking care of each other in their old age. They were not good as a married couple but they are perfect as friends and it’s just so lovely to see.
Ha ha ha ha!! “Aw. (but no.)” so PERFECTLY captures that feeling!!
Ha – I had at least 2 ex-boyfriends at my wedding too (uh, 19 years ago). One of them remained a close enough friend that we would see each other whenever I was in his city (either alone or with my husband+family)- He has since moved across the country and it’s doubtful we will see each other anytime soon, but if we were nearby we would. My husband was actually friends with him separately from me before Husband & I met, so they enjoy hanging out. I have several other guy friends who were never boyfriends & if I’m in their location, we go out for dinner, drinks, etc. My Big Dramatic High School Ex apparently got married recently (I admit, I FB stalked him a teeny bit…we are not FB friends) to what appears to be a much younger woman. I have Thoughts (but luckily, not Feelings) about this. He has a kid with some other ex.
I dated a guy pretty seriously through all of high school. We broke up but remained friends and even shared a house after college for a year. He is married and each summer we get together with our kids to hang out at a beach or pool. My ex-husband calls me several times a day lately- he is bored working from home I guess. We have dinner on the day I drop off my son to him and when he brings him back. During this quarantine time we have been cooking each other dinner instead of going out. So, I am pretty fine with exes!
This thread has me thinking about the list of men who could say something like “You look nice” and A) not cause alarm and B) make you feel like maybe you do look nice and feel a little happy about that. It’s not a very long list? And it can stop growing pretty early in life? But I think having a few people on that list is likely a good thing for mental health, as long as you handle it responsibly?
(This is definitely about me, and not about anything I am reading into Swistle’s situation)
That’s interesting–my husband and I had a conversation about “you look nice” the other day. He has a coworker who is going through an ugly divorce, and she is taking care of herself and exercising and looks fantastic. He wants to tell her that, but doesn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable. We talked about ways to say it without coming across as a come-on, and ways that men and women can encourage each other without it getting weird.
I love, love, love this post.
Kevin just reached out to an old girlfriend to make amends a few months ago. He gave clear boundaries to her and she did in kind. We’re all friends on the social media now. They keep in contact off and on. Sometimes he mentions their communications to me but I don’t need to know.
The resolution for him has been wonderful and I think she feels the same. Now they can enjoy the friendship. And it’s really out of my control if something developed. Not that I wouldn’t be hurt, it’s just not something I would preemptively try to stop Just In Case.
I got together with my husband pretty young, so I don’t have a huge number of exes to keep in contact with. The one semi-serious other boyfriend that I had is still a ‘friend’ and someone I would happy chat with at a college function, or go and get a drink with if we were in each other’s city (although because he now lives across the world in Australia, that seems somewhat unlikely to happen.
Yeah, I feel guilty enough for simply Not Replying to emails out of the blue from guys who used to have crushes on me who are having marital difficulty and are emailing with “you always understoooood me!” junk (sometimes with implicit “backup potential romantic partner?” fishing, sometimes just looking for “take my side instead of my wife’s side!” stuff).
So hooray for you feeling fine with cutting off emotional assistance when it is inappropriate to give emotional assistance! Good work! (Instead of feeling guilty about cutting them off when you haven’t heard from them for 7+ years and there is no definitely-platonic content in their message at all! Oy. I’ve got a long way to go…)
One of my husband’s exes got recruited by a mutual friend to help out with our wedding reception? That’s about all I’ve got for non-problematic ex stuff, though.
I have two elementary school-aged kids with my ex so we have a Strong Interest in our relationship remaining friendly and productive with firm boundaries and good communication. I not only make sure his wife could read anything I text him, I also often text them both. Sometimes I communicate directly with her (he does not know which day they are having Easter dinner for example so why involve him).
He has accidentally texted me instead of his wife twice and both times he was sending her something sweet and silly, for which I am immensely grateful.
I have had pretty much every ex reach out to me in the past 5-10 years to see what I was doing. It never occurred to me to do the reverse!
1. College boyfriend called every few years to apologize for minor things as part of a 12 step program. The first time I was glad for him (he needed it). The third time was worrisome- did he not remember apologizing or was required to do it all over?
2. High school boyfriend got my number from my mom (don’t do this! There is a reason he didn’t have my number!) he called me while at I was at work and told me he and his wife wrote content for exercise related websites and made internet porn for a living. Oh, and he had been thinking about me for some time and looked up every one of my friends to try and find me, until he called my mom. OMG I had to bleach my brain afterwards. Porn!
Obviously I dated real winners.
I have an Ex where we dated pretty seriously around 26 for 1.5 years – but then it was over, his choice. I was HEARTBROKEN but he is the kind of person where once thet are in your life, he doesn’t really let you out, which now I am grateful for. He was already good friends with another Ex so it didn’t seem so weird but I had to set some pretty serious boundaries at first, like 30 days no contact until I felt more separated from the situation.
18 years later, we are daily texting friends, always and forever texts my husband could read, and as couples we are great friends. We hang out, we love each others children, we used to visit each others citites pre-Covid, camp together, and now we Zoom together. I don’t speak to my other Exes much if ever, but I’m glad I have this one in my life.
I am friendly with an ex that sounds similar to your situation- we follow each other on social media and occasionally comment there. (my husband follows him too). And then about once a year or so we have a text exchange that is about something more specific; saw this band we both used to like, found an old college newspaper in a box, we moved, new job, etc. We did have a beer together once about 15 yrs ago, but he was networking for a new job, so it made sense. I haven’t seen him in person since then. (he works in my city but lives a ways out). In the past year or so he’s been looped into a larger college group that I am friends with and I expect that he & his wife will show up at a party with that group at some point – but Covid-19 hit before that could happen. He is still one of the funniest people I have ever met, so I like being friends with him!
I thought I didn’t have any friends-with-an-ex stories but then I remembered that one of my exes – K – is actually my daughter’s godfather! I dated him in college and at the time he was roommates with my now-husband. Our breakup was actually somewhat dramatic – I was dating someone else when the ex and I became interested in each other. When I broke up with the guy to be with K, he lost interest in me. Then a year later, he was interested again! I said no thanks. In the end, he and my husband are still friends and the ex and his wife became our daughter’s godparents.
One of my high school exes ended up dating a girl right after me, and after 10 years of dating they got married. She never liked me because I’d briefly dated her partner, plus our personalities weren’t really compatible. BUT when she left him for one of his best friends less than a year after they got married I was one of the few people he was friends with who had never become friends with her, so he did indeed come to me for emotional support, and it was fine and friend-based. My boyfriend at the time did not feel threatened, not even when this friend asked to accompany on my solo-planned Europe backpacking trip, to which I said yes. We were completely over being attracted to each other and travelled together platonically for the duration of the trip.
A few years later, while pregnant with my husband’s and my first child I helped decorate the venue at which he and his lovely new partner were getting married. She hosts my daughter and I over to do art projects. He will show up at 4:00 in the morning to drive us to the airport. We have them over as a couple or individually to swim in our pool (well, not this year when we’re distancing, but normally). My husband will go over without me to help with heavy lifting. No one cares that he and I dated in high school, it’s just an amusing footnote in our shared history.
I am curious – has anyone noticed if the pandemic has influenced the amount/frequency of contact with their exes?
Like, I do have a significant ex with whom I habitually email once a year, but he lives in California and since I’m in Canada and have heard all kinds of not-great things about what’s been going on down in the States I made a point of checking in well before our usual loose “appointment” of August to see how he and his family were doing and what his perspective was from inside the US. And to be fair, it’s not like he’s special: since I’m mostly at home during the pandemic, I’ve made a point of reaching out to all my friends over the internet and telephone more than I normally would in order to combat feelings of isolation.