I have the uneasy feeling that there was something I was supposed to do this morning. I’m hoping it is just the lingering memory that I need to order Paul some new shoes, because I already did that. I also ordered these for myself:
(image from Converse.com)
I almost didn’t, because I balked at the price even on sale, so when I opened the order confirmation later there was a little moment where I couldn’t remember which way I’d gone on that decision, and then I saw them in the email and my heart leapt up with happiness.
Last night I was folding laundry and making a mental note that Paul needed new shoes and that I should order some in the morning, and I thought for a little while about the life Paul lives. Like, I’m not commenting on whether or not it’s fair, or claiming that it doesn’t fall within agreed-upon labor divisions, or saying that I would be powerless to change it, or saying that he couldn’t come up with similar thoughts about the way I live—but still I wonder, what must it be like to NEVER THINK ABOUT YOUR SOCKS? Like, not only do clean ones appear without you taking any action, but OLD ones disappear and NEW ones appear without you taking any action. You might notice the supply getting a little old/holey, or sometimes it might dwindle to the point where you start to get a little nervous about having enough socks for the week, but you never actually run out and you don’t even have to think about what brand you wear and whether or not it’s on sale or whether any particular sock is ready to be thrown out. WHAT WOULD THAT BE LIKE.
What must it be like to never think about scheduling appointments for the pediatrician, the dentist, the orthodontist, the eye doctor, the various specialists for Crohn’s disease and scoliosis and wisdom teeth and allergies? What must it be like to see the insurance rejections come in with exasperating regularity (“This time we’re claiming we didn’t get the referral, so you get to make that whole batch of phone calls all over again!”), but YOUR only part of the suffering is having to listen to someone talk about how frustrating it is to deal with them? What is it like to be able to confidently go to work without ever worrying about the impact of the children’s schedules or illnesses? What’s it like to be able to schedule a trip without having to make any arrangements for your absence at home?
What do you suppose it’s like to take off your work shirt, onto which you have spilled Crystal Light, and just drop it into the laundry, knowing it will appear back in your closet stain-free but without giving any thought to the process of noticing the stain, treating the stain, buttoning down the pocket flaps because otherwise they get crinkly during laundering, putting it in the washer with another kind of stain remover and also maybe using the soak cycle, remembering to check to make sure the stain is out before putting it in the dryer, re-treating the stain, re-washing, re-checking, drying, remembering to take it out promptly so it doesn’t wrinkle, hanging it up? What is it LIKE to live that way, I wonder, perhaps just sighing a little because you find your pocket flaps buttoned and you wanted them unbuttoned? I think it must be like being very, very rich.
I often ponder this, myself, and have been known to, in the midst of a heated argument, shout, “I wish I had a wife!”
I am so going to use this line in the future.
I say this often. I lamented to my college son how I need a wife to worry about all the grocery needs. He sent me this: http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/rainbow/wife.html
I just read this aloud to a co-worker and we both did the Crush head nod from Finding Nemo.
It would, indeed, be like being very very rich.
What. Must. That. Be. Like.
*sobs*
Read as “sobbing,” or “sons of bitches,” because HEY THEY BOTH WORK.
Immediately brought to mind this episode of Frazier:
Martin Crane: [to Frasier] You’re being too picky. It’s just housekeeping, not rocket science.
Daphne Moon: I beg to differ. You don’t even know half of what I used to do around here. Like dusting the plant leaves or rotating your underwear.
Martin Crane: Excuse me?
Daphne Moon: Every month I used to throw out your oldest pair and put in two new pairs. Did it ever occur to you that you didn’t have to buy underwear in ten years?
Martin Crane: Thought I got hold of a good batch.
Frazier?? Thanks, autocorrect
Ha ha ha!
I can’t imagine buying another adult human shoes. How do you know he needs them? How do you know what style/color, etc…..or is it like when you have a little kid and you have to keep track of that because they literally can’t? I would HATE someone else deciding when I do/don’t need new shoes and picking them out for me!
He always wants the same kind. He keeps two pairs: one for lawnmowing and other grubby work, one for regular. When the regular pair starts looking like the lawnmowing pair, I buy him a new pair and he throws out the oldest ones.
ok that make sense. but what about if he needs a new pair for, running or something fancy, or just because? are you also in charge of those? like, would he say, “could you buy me some shoes for the gym?” I *like* buying shoes (for myself) but I can understand how not everyone enjoys shopping/picking things out…..
He doesn’t like shopping or picking things out for himself. When I met him in college, his mom was still choosing/buying all his clothes for him.
Well we do know his mom was kind of a loon…
But, in hindsight do you find that alarming or endearing? Many boys/men don’t care what they wear, so in some ways, you could view it as her just keeping him in clothes (but now you’re doing that job). In other ways, it can be viewed as her not trusting him to chose the right clothes/shoes. I struggle with this as my 17 year old son isn’t not into fashion, does not like jeans, and could basically live in tshirts and shorts/sweats. He’s got another year before college. I don’t expect him to pay for all of this clothing but I do kind of expect he’ll be choosing his own clothing (other than gifts he isn’t choosing himself). More importantly than clothing though, he will need to learn to make his own doctor appts and stuff like that by the time he’s out of college. It feels like a lot of work transitioning all of this stuff from “mom’s responsibility” to “your own responsibility” somewhere in their early 20s. He does know how to do laundry though, so I’m taking that as a small win right now. I only have one son, and two daughters, and so far I find raising a boy harder than raising girls.
This post is great – and yes – I do wonder how it feels to NOT be the one with the mental weight of keeping all the balls in the air all the time. I don’t buy my husband’s shoes or socks or underwear actually… he has certain kinds he likes, so he gets to make the purchases.
Always great and thoughtful topics, Swistle!
Yeah, I’m with you: it doesn’t seem particularly alarming to me in retrospect. More like, he didn’t care, and she was probably just buying replacements the same as what had worn out.
I too am feeling the pressure of how to TRANSITION them to all this STUFF. Like, Rob went to the doctor, and I sent him up to reception on his own, and they asked him who the subscriber was on his health insurance and he had no idea what they were talking about. I don’t remember how I learned all those things. One thing I taught him on this most recent occasion was that it is okay to say “I don’t think I know what that means.”
Such a good line to embrace! As someone who spends a lot of time on the phone explaining things (social media and tech) to gen pop, I am more than happy to share some simplified knowledge when asked with a tone that implies curiosity or desire to learn. It’s the exasperated “I don’t know that!” that makes me lean my head against the wall and close my eyes.
My husband is the same way. Always the same shoe.
I can SO relate!!! Especially now that my husband has Parkinsons disease. SO MANY things to think about and keep track of.
Thinking of you and your husband. My extended family (Ashkanazi Jewish) had 5 cases of Parkinson’s, with only two of the five related to each other by blood.
I’m so sorry, Jeanne. My dad has Parkinson’s and has for 14 years. It’s really hard. Sending you love.
YES. Oh my goodness, I so relate. After putting my son on the bus this morning (last day of school here), my husband asked “Did we do anything for the bus driver as a thank you?” WE. Aggghhh. (And yes, I managed to get her a target gift card while I was on a business trip earlier this week where I made arrangements for all kids to be taken care of while I was out of town so he had literally one extra responsibility, making sure oldest got on the bus in the morning.) Must be nice!!
I know what you mean, in a very small way. My husband is taking off in June for an extended backpacking trip. He’s worried about leaving “everything” for me to do. As long as he arranges for lawnmowing, literally the only extra responsibilities I will have are scooping litter boxes and a couple loads of laundry. And I will have SO MUCH glorious alone time.
While I do a LOT in our household (including all the laundry for the kids), I do NOT do my husband’s laundry, and I didn’t realize how excellent that was until now.
I can’t imagine all that, but you deserved the shoes.
I’ve had this thought many times over the years about food. What it would be like to live a life where you are not constantly list making, shopping, and preparing food. To just come home, sit down, and eat some food. That too, must feel like being very, very rich.
YAAAAAAS
Yes, yes, yes! I don’t desire being very, very rich but I do wish I were rich enough to hire a personal chef. After 40+ years of meal planning, shopping, prepping, and cleaning up I just want someone else to do it all for me
In the early days of living together, say 1999, my husband told me I did not fold his shirt the correct way. Well, that was the last time I ever folded a shirt for him. In fact, he got to take over 90% of laundry duty from that day forward. Sure, I’ll move the laundry from the washer to the dryer, but sorting/folding/starting the wash? No longer part of my household responsibilities. My clothes are laundered and magically reappear in my closet on an almost daily basis.
He also owns more pairs of sneakers than any man could ever wear out, and a good portion of his closet is dedicated to his sneakers. As well as the entire shoe bench at the bottom of the stairs. As for socks- every time I go to Costco, I pick up a few packs of socks- K Bell socks are worn by every female in the house.
THANK YOU. I need to think like this much more often. I did, this week, because my husband came back from a ‘work trip’ (it was an employee appreciation trip, so all fun) during which he just left and it was assumed I was in charge of the children solo all weekend without a conversation, then the next day he went off to work while I washed all of the clothing from his suitcase, dried it, folded it, and put it away.
On a usual basis, though, most of the household operates under ‘wouldn’t it be a nice life to not have to go to an office every day?’ And yes, yes it is, usually, but that doesn’t mean he has the hardest life of all of us. No one needs to claim that title!
I read this article and got pretty mad. And then I cooled down. And then I read your blog post and got pretty mad again. The level of unfair is unreal. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/upshot/women-long-hours-greedy-professions.html?wpisrc=nl_lily&wpmm=1&fbclid=IwAR365pFMJznCDNs_SjJHnXB1U2zthRMplSegZSTrNN3XcdYTNjNQOOfWaFw
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/opinion/sunday/men-parenting.html
What about this article? I am just FUMING at the patriarchy lately.
UGH. I can’t believe that *THIS* is where we are.
I cut this out of the Times and set it aside for when I have the strength to give it to my husband and say (not scream) READ IT.
He’s a good guy, but wow, I am pretty mad about the load I am carrying in this household.
When my daughter had her first visit home from university, she commented that she had never appreciated the magic pantry cupboard before she left home. It was amazing how it just always filled up with food. Then she was responsible for her own shopping, and realized how much work I did behind the scenes, to make the magic happen. It felt so nice to have that work noticed.
My mom used to call the shopping list the Magic List for this exact reason!
That must have felt nice.
The mind boggles.
My husband won’t let me buy him socks or shoes because he’s on his feet all day and wants to pick out something that works for him. Even then he sometimes has arch issues. He chucks his old versions and gets new ones as he needs.
I do all the laundry in the interest of having our clothes last longer (he can’t figure out the categories and what gets washed at what temperature, what gets hung to dry, etc.), but the kids do the folding and everyone puts their own clothes away (kids put away communal things like linen and towels).
This. I think it’s suspicious that he can’t get good at reading labels for laundry or sorting the recycling and trash and so they default to. The only things I have on my feigned incompetence list are making coffee and making, but that’s because my own dad told me to specifically never get good at those things so no one could “secretarialize” me. Office assistance do noble work and put up with so much , I don’t mean to suggest the job wasn’t “good enough,” just that my dad had some crazy CEO dreams for me. Now I’m CEO of Laundry and Recycling…..so that all worked out really well.
Wow some words are really missing from my comment. When I type on my phone?? I just can’t get good at it I guess. Maybe I can find a wife to type comments for me lol
We had a very large fight about this kind of thing a few weeks ago – in the mornings, I get up extra early so I can exercise, take a shower, wake up the kids, unload the dishwasher, pack lunches, feed the dog, fix breakfasts and then get myself ready to go to work. My husband…. gets up and gets… JUST HIMSELF ready. I think the most confusing thing is he just doesn’t feel any kind of guilt or sheepishness about NOT helping out. Like, isn’t there a part of him that SEES what is happening around him and feels kind of BAD that he’s not contributing? Unfortunately the answer is no, he does not, and so we will probably have a quarterly argument about this until we die.
HA! This reminds me of a trip we took when the kids were little. I was in the middle of a days-long effort to get everything we needed bought/packed when my husband threw a few clothes into a bag, firmly announced he was done, and then looked incredulously at me for not being done. I said, “Oh really? You’re done? Have you verified we have 2 epipens packed and a note from our son’s doctor that he needs to take a sharp object on a plane? Found our travel documents like passports and insurance info, made copies, and packed them in separate places? Stocked up on and packed the Junior Advil and Gravol for our kids’ migraines? Made sure we have enough diapers and wipes and packed those in both the carryon and checked baggage? Gotten the currency we need from the bank? Packed sand toys for the beach? Enough sunblock for everyone? Hats? Arranged for the mail to be brought in and the driveway to be cleared and the fish to be fed? (… I listed about 10 more things that had to be checked/packed for the household)” He just looked contrite and said “I guess I’m not done.” We haven’t had to have that conversation again.
The funniest part was when we got there and he had to sheepishly admit he’d forgotten to bring his bathing suit. To a beach resort vacation.
OMG yes my husband wonders why I am always stressed about packing! He can live out of a single backpack for three or four days…but there’s no way to pack for me and our four kids without A LOT of luggage! Even just for overnight!
I hear ya!
Same.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/opinion/sunday/men-parenting.html
This article was posted above and explains the male mentality you’re questioning.
Yup, I was just asking my husband what he has to do on school mornings and he was confused why I was mad that he just gets dressed and eats breakfast. I get incoherent with rage trying to point out the inequity in our roles.
On bad days I wonder what must it be like never to have to make or even to think about making any doctors/dentists/ortho appointment for our kids OR worry about how to get them there and back when one is working outside the home full time or to think about paying bills or to look at the friggin house for even one second and thing something needs to be tidied/cleaned/mopped/dusted. WHAT WOULD THAT BE LIKE??
On good days I manage to tame the rage by reminding myself that I give zero thought to any kind of tech/IT issue – our computers, phones, iPads, TV all just magically run and do what they’re supposed to do. I don’t think about the kids’ lunches every other week, I don’t have to meal plan and shop every week, and I only have to do bedtime 4 or 7 nights on average.
Frankly, simmering rage at the disparity is still there but it’s reduced considerably since my kids have got older. When they were little, the burden was heavy and it fell disproportionately on me and I was mad all the time. Now they’re 16 and almost 10 and the burden is much less so I’m less angry. This is not a solution but it’s my reality.
THIS. All of this. And I work outside of home, too. Very, very luckily at a relatively flexible workplace. So that means I manage about half of it about half-way decently.
I used to think about this issue even before I was married and saw it up close and personal. When we learned about “great thinkers/scientists/inventors/writers/whatevers” in history and they ALL seemed to me men, it didn’t square with my lived experience of the world. Then it occurred to me, I bet Isaac Newton didn’t make his own meals, or wash his own socks. Oh, did Stephen King manage to write “Carrie” while holding down a full time job? Who was watching his kids while he wrote? I just…SO much of women’s labor gets wasted on this crap. SO. MUCH. When I think of the men in my profession, and how they seem to have more time in the day, I wonder, what are they doing while I’m shaving my legs, conditioning my hair, putting on make up, bothering to learn that YES in fact there ARE different shades of black clothes and NO they DON’T all automatically match each other. Oh, hello, rage spiral my old friend and constant companion these days.
There was, awhile back, a great twitter thread (s) highlighting academic work that thanked the male writer’s wife for all their help and it really highlighted how easy it is to do high level academic work when you have all the other stuff, even the typing of that work, done for you. Hashtag was something like thanksfortyping maybe?
Thank you! I’ll have to check that out. Some balm for the rage ;)
Stephen King’s wife is an author too, though obviously not as well-known…
I remember when I first learned this, and I think it bugged me even MORE when I found that out. Did she want the same career? How often did she sacrifice her own writing time so that he could write? UGH.
I do appreciate that Stephen King at least recognizes this disparity to some extent. He recently called out newspapers when they refer to Tabitha as “Stephen King’s wife.”
I agree, but also that’s a good example on a societal level because COME ON NEWSPAPER DO BETTER.
We….literally had this conversation a few weeks ago. I used the exact phrase, “What must it be like to be you?!” I got a sheepish, “It’s really, really, really nice.” in reply.
When I quit my job after our latest baby to be a stay at home mom, I realized just how much I was attempting to do while also working. All of the cooking, meal planning, grocery shopping, kid appointments, laundry, cat boxes, bathroom scrubbing, financial planning, taxes….were all falling to me. I didn’t handle car or house maintenance and that was about it. With a full time job! No wonder I was having anxiety meltdowns and felt like a constant failure with a dirty house! You can’t do both! And if you can, I’m pretty sure you’re part cyborg.
Swistle, I have to thank you. I had my husband read “He’s not a Mind Reader” and every.single.comment.
It was like the heavens opened up and he just understood my frustrations so much better. So, now we’ve switched jobs around the house. Almost all of them. It has shattered my world view. He does a ton more than I realized – and all the gross stuff. He’s been so much more appreciative of the jobs that I do (did), too. I doubt that we’ll keep it up forever, but maybe through the summer. It works out for us because we work nearly the exact same number of hours. We’ve been married 21 years – who is responsible for what has been in flux over the years, but we’ve never swapped like this.
This is amazing!
What a fantastic experiment. Way to go! (Earnest comment, no sarcasm).
Jennifer, that’s amazing!! I’m sort of scared to really have this conversation with my husband because what if he understands and THEN DOESN’T CHANGE HIS BEHAVIOR!?!? I can’t even.
One thing I realized VERY QUICKLY when I got divorced and became a single mom is that while I no doubt took for granted (as many have said here) many of the traditionally male tasks (yardwork, car and home repairs, IT support) that my ex did, those things are VERY EASILY OUTSOURCED to the lowest bidder, whereas the things I was doing for him were practically irreplaceable without considerable time investment in the relationship and effort. So.
Oh man….. as someone who lives this life, I can say it is AMAZING and SO APPRECIATED.
My husband is a stay at home dad to our two girls, and I work a very demanding, full time job. He does everything; all the laundry, all the cooking/shopping, doctor’s appointments, children shuttling and I am forever impressed by how well he holds everything together.
All the partners out there keeping life running and taking care of the house are working SO HARD!!!
I needed this post! A couple days ago I was feeling the exact opposite way of what you are feeling here. I was laying in bed reading while my husband was getting ready to go to work before 6am. I had been thinking about all the fun summer stuff we had been planning… pool, zoo, amusement park, museum – we have passes to all of them and I take the kids often. And I was feeling really guilty. I LOVED to work, but how would it feel to very rarely get to do all these fun things at the drop of a hat?
But you’re right, I’m holding my own!
I have more than once referred to the laundry fairies that must have come again or the grocery fairies that fill the fridge when I am feeling like some people in my house need a reminder of how some things get done. It’s funny but pointed when I do it, I am not conveying that tone well in this comment.
This hit home. I do the laundry, grocery, cooking, cleaning, kid appointments for 6 kids, bills, all school communication, etc. I babysit during the school day for a handful of other peoples’ kids so I have that to deal with too. Coach works crazy long hours but is always looking for more designations/schooling. Like ‘I think I might do another fellowship.’ He does thank me from time to time, but when is it my turn??? I have a manuscript I want to submit. Can never quite find enough time to finish it. Not sure why?!
Oh yeah, I get this. But, I also know that he will deal with all the cooking and grocery shopping; which I would hate with a great passion if I had to do it; especially since I work. He will pitch in when asked (why should he HAVE to be asked?). He is very vocally appreciative about some of the things I do (laundry, mainly) – so I try to not be resentful. But, as empty-nesters, it is much easier than it was when we had a young child.
You’re right…why should he HAVE to be asked? I hate that, because that makes me the nag.
And the vocally appreciative part? I have no patience with that. I don’t want a throwaway “thank you.” I want YOU to take the initiative and scoop the litter boxes, wash the dishes, clean the kitchen, vacuum the floors — all by your grownup (retired, may I add) self!!
It makes me feel like he’s saying, “Hm, I’ll just say THANK YOU and I’m off the hook! THAT DOES NOT HELP ME. It only makes me feel more of a doormat. But if I want a tidy house, then it’s up to me.
I can SO relate to your dilemma. Although our children are grown now, I still take care of all the household duties, including making sure my husband has clean clothes for work.
There was a minute when I was busy, distracted, sick and he didn’t have any work pants one morning.
The look on his face was priceless. :) He wouldn’t dare complain, but he was perplexed.
How about getting ready to go on a trip? They simply pack their bag. I’m running ragged for days prior to… getting the house ready, the pets ready, bills, laundry etc…..
*sigh*
There was a typo in your title. I think you meant to write
THE LIFE OF MOST HUSBANDS
This is exactly where I am right now. I’m so frustrated at all this work I do that’s unnoticed and unappreciated. I am so angry!! We both used to work full time and I was cracking under the pressure because then I did everything and also worked outside the home. Now my husband works and I do literally everything else – laundry, bills, household maintenance, grocery shopping, everything with kids, appointments, buy my husband clothes, shoes, underwear, shampoo, razors, make him appointments, etc. I support him so he can go to the gym on weekends. This weekend he didn’t like the food we had at the house and he freaking went OUT TO LUNCH by himself. I’m home with the kids. I can’t even. You know though, it’s getting so frustrating that I was happy he went to lunch because then I didn’t have to see him at home doing nothing. This article sums some of it up:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/opinion/sunday/men-parenting.html
I am just really fed up with the way things are for women. In so, so many ways. Damn it.
Erica-you have my absolute sympathy, and I wish your husband would have gone out and brought back some fun food for you. I can’t even imagine how you must have felt, and I just read your comment to my husband and we are both furious on your behalf!!
I’m going to look at it from the other side: what must it feel like to not have to have the pressure of being financially responsible for 7 people? Don’t get me wrong, Paul sounds like someone who has an overly easy home life, but this is not like the NY Times article someone posted above by a commenter which focuses on couples where both parties work and the woman is still carrying the emotional load of home.
I have no doubt Swistle’s life many years ago, with 5 young children, must have been incredibly busy. But she has now reached a state of life where, where being at home would be a preferably state for many people (hello retirement).
Not having to get up and go to work everyday, whether you like it or not, must be marvellous. I think it would be good to acknowledge that you are benefiting from the arrangement as much as Paul, if not more so.
I don’t know why this post is bothering me so much as I usually love your writing and what you post.
I think you missed the part where I addressed it: “Like, I’m not commenting on whether or not it’s fair, or claiming that it doesn’t fall within agreed-upon labor divisions, or saying that I would be powerless to change it, or saying that he couldn’t come up with similar thoughts about the way I live—but still I wonder…”
And I suspect it’s bothering you because it launched a discussion from women many of whom are worse off than me, but you’re thinking of their comments as continuations of the post. So, like, you read a comment by a woman working full-time who ALSO is dealing with the socks, and then you’re getting annoyed as if that’s what I’m claiming about my own situation—when actually it is someone else talking about their own situation.
But also: we’re so socialized to defend and prioritize men and to overestimate how hard their lives are, and also to underestimate and deprioritize how much work it is to run a household / raise children. Do we really want to call women “benefiting from the arrangement” when a man is having a successful and productive and interesting career and a woman gets to…manage his clothes?
Though things are much less overwhelming than when the children were small, “retirement” is a wildly inaccurate word-choice. It is also very irritating to have it described as “not having to get up and go to work.” I am still on the “getting up at 5:15 and starting right in on the tasks of the day” schedule.
Thank you for this, Swistle. And this, ” Do we really want to call women “benefiting from the arrangement” when a man is having a successful and productive and interesting career and a woman gets to…manage his clothes?” particularly. No. No, we do not.
I have written several comments to this post in my own head, but only now this one on the blog itself. In my household, the gender roles are reversed; I am the breadwinner and my husband is home. And intending no offense to, well, anyone, there is no way I would willingly swap my career to be home. Getting to leave the house and go to work is by far the most relaxing and easiest thing I do all day (and yes, my husband does do stuff around the house … but there’s also plenty he leaves to me, which I mention only because it ties in to Swistle’s original point. For example, he does the laundry and sets it out for its owners to put away, fair enough, but then somehow the towels and sheets get added to … my stack?!).
Because yes, we are, indeed, “socialized to defend and prioritize men and to overestimate how hard their lives are, and also to underestimate and deprioritize how much work it is to run a household / raise children.”
This!
I recall a divorced cousin whose son spent every OTHER weekend with his dad. Our grandmom thought it was fair because he needed a break – afterall he worked 40hrs per wk.
But my cousin also worked 40hrs/wk and only received every OTHER weekend off.
I’m still seething 15 years later.
Riley – look for the similarities and not the differences.
I’ve got to tell you, the “if not more so” almost made me spit out my coffee. If I had to choose between being a Swistle, or being a Paul WITH a Swistle, well, no offence to Swistle, but the latter would win hands-down. I got at chance to be a Swistle for two year-long maternity leaves (can I pause a moment for a hallelujah for Canada’s maternity leave system?), and I was READY to go back to work by the end of each year. I could never hack being a stay-at-home mom – or an elementary school teacher, or a nurse, or a daycare provider (clearly I’m not a nurturing person) – and am in awe of people who love being these things. I don’t know how Swistle does it.
Unfortunately like many commenters I’m both a Paul AND a Swistle, though thankfully my husband is both as well to some extent, (but he sure is less of a Swistle than I am – I definitely carry more than half of the child-and-house-related burden, and probably about 90% of the mental load for the household).
I had an early hospital appointment for my pregnancy this morning (noting that because it’s HIS child that’s being monitored too). I asked my partner to help get the toddler ready so we could get out the door. He told him to get his shoes on and to go to the toilet. That was it. SO. FLIPPING. HELPFUL.
He also seems to think I have a “hobby” of buying clothes for the children. Such an indulgent hobby to buy clothing on sale so our children aren’t left naked in the elements.
The “thinks buying kids clothes is fun” happens to me too. Do I find joy in seeing my kids in fun or cute outfits? Yes, because otherwise I would have no joy. And I find some pleasure in getting good deals and completing a task, but it is in no way FUN I would much rather be reading.
Ha: I love “because otherwise I would have no joy.” And ug, Paul used to be like “MORE clothes for the kids??” YES, THEY GROW.
My husband is ex-military, and I am a firm believer that the military taught him to be self-sufficient. He never “expected” me to take care of him, and I know a lot of this is his own personality, but he is usually very appreciative of things I do for him. We are a partnership, and after 25 years of marriage and one child graduated from college, I know I am a lucky person. I hate reading how women are still expected to bear the brunt of all the labor, even when they are working full time. For the first 4 years of my marriage, I had the better job, made more money, had great insurance. When I came home, dinner was on the table, the house was clean-my husband had more time and picked up the slack. Then the tables turned, and I did the same. Well, besides the cooking because he loves it and is excellent at it. I am a detail person, and I don’t mind doing the paperwork that keeps a family together, he loves to do handy work and can fix a car, or a broken toilet and can build a fence.
After reading this post and the comments, I try to think where men would do what the women in their lives are doing? Make sure they have the shoes, underwear, pants they want? Do they order the clothes for the children, make sure they are making their appointments and getting to school on time with clean clothes and lunches? Here we are in 2019-and how are men still getting away with a free pass? I grew up in the thick of the women’s movement in the 1960’s and 70’s-and it blows my mind we are still talking about things like this. I guess my biggest question-where do men get this sense of entitlement? Do you think it is from their mothers?
It is from their fathers.
And their spouses!
I realize this comment likely won’t be received well. But we (myself included) are responsible for determining the division of labor with our spouses in the relationship. Discussing it on the internet is fun and allows us to blow off some steam – and also see how others divide labor within their lives/relationships, but it does nothing to break the cycle.
Ug. I’ve been seeing this around, and I see what you mean, but I also think this just blames women on top of everything else. Deeply ingrained societal stuff is hard to fight on a personal individual level—and if it doesn’t work, then what? I think this is a way to shrug off the problem WITH MEN by saying that it’s women’s fault for not fixing it—when it isn’t as if most of us haven’t tried and tried HARD for YEARS AND YEARS to fix it, with an exhausting and spirit-crushing failure to do so. I suggest we now try having MEN fix THEIR OWN SELVES.
I agree, Swistle, that men have to fix themselves. BUT, we have to stop doing the stuff. Which means that our spouse may wear a shirt with a stain on it, or wrinkles, which we *know* society will JUDGE US FOR (same for kids and badly brushed hair, or an untidy house or whatever) but that is the F*CKING PATRIARCHY talking. If you walk out the door looking bad, that’s YOUR CHOICE in how you present yourself. And I know the preschool teachers talk SH!T about me behind my back because of the choices my 5 year old makes in her clothes, or the fact that I don’t come/volunteer to every event (with never once stopping to talk SH!T about their FATHER who barely knows which classroom is hers) that’s THEIR problem. I’m practicing the art of not giving a F!ck. If I come to an event it’s because I want to and can and was able to make it work. So yes, it’s their problem to fix. But we have to pretend like we live in the world we want to see. A world in which no one would ever expect us to buy our spouse’s socks or judge us if they wear a shirt with a stain. Because that’s the world I want to see.
Yeah! There are so many factors that make negotiating different for couples. Negotiation itself can be brutal emotional labor!!! And your partner might say no or resist, then what? So easy to tell another woman to make ultimatums, or to “get help,” or to just get out, but come on, life is more complicated than that.
I *do* believe in negotiating, and have done a fair amount of it myself, but I understand that it can be difficult, and personal, and it’s not my role to assign it to someone else.
*responding to Swistle’s comment “I’ve been seeing this around*
Well, right… It’s hard to change how things are if they’ve been that way within the marriage/relationship for several years, or worsened when kids arrived. But men won’t fix their own selves if someone keeps doing stuff for them. To me, this is not a “blame the women” kind of thing. I can only blame myself if I’m not happy with the division of labor within my marriage; I can’t do anything about anyone else’s (other than set a good example for my kids so they can make their own choices).
FWIW, my husband and I both work full-time, though my job allows me much more flexibility and I do the bulk of the cleaning/laundry/shopping-for-necessities. We both cook, but he probably does more (maybe 40/60 split). He has also handled making doctor/dentist appointments for our kids and taking them to appointments. He handles car maintenance and “man” stuff like that. Our son mows the lawn, but we all do yardwork. Yes, it annoys the crap out of me that it seems no one else in the house knows how to load the dishwasher or wipe up the crumbs or put their shoes/backpacks out of the way. We have made choices for ourselves that many people don’t understand including giving our kids my surname. But that sent a HUGE message to our kids that you do not have to follow what society deems normal. I have felt the brunt of that name decision for 17 years (imagine the issues my inlaws have with me!). Even with our situation, I still am the one with decision fatigue and am the one thinking about X, Y, and Z that needs to be done… but I hope we have bridged the gap between the expectations of people born in the 1950s (our parents) and people born in the early 2000s (our kids).
Also I just want to say there is nothing wrong with wanting to be a “traditional” housewife, even now in 2019 and onwards. I suspect there are women who do really want to be the one that does it all at home. That desire shouldn’t be minimized because so many of us didn’t/don’t want that. I feel like the current atmosphere tells those women to shut the hell up, and I find that so unfair.
Tracy,
It’s such a complicated issues, I agree! I also like to think about gender parity as a two-part issue: Women reaching out to do “Man” stuff (work outside the home, hold positions of authority, bearing less emotional labor) AND Men learning to do “Women” stuff (less shaming over being a child caretaker, full emotional literacy, do the damn dishes or whatever). We’ve come very far and we will continue to improve our lot as humans, step by step.
Yes! My mother in law recently went to a seminar by a well known feminist. She said “she really missed out on commenting that all the women in the audience had such an important job to do in making sure their sons and grandsons didn’t turn into misogynists”. You know what? If men have been capable of “running the world” for centuries they’re more than able to not be dicks these days.
On this point, this article has been bouncing around in my head all week: https://medium.com/athena-talks/the-case-for-disappointing-men-dbb8cdde58c2
Yep, my husband was in the military and does his own laundry, and will happily make his own or the kids’ dinner if I’m not feeling it. I like to do the grocery shopping, but he’ll do it if I can’t. If I’ve made dinner, he’ll clean up the kitchen–he likes putting things back in order and cleaning it.
Regarding the laundry, has anybody just tried NOT doing their husband’s laundry and see what happens? It’s called natural consequences.
Sigh. I do it all. Everything. Even the traditional man jobs like feeding the dog and getting the car serviced. I was raised by a single Mum- first wave feminist and I just never thought my life would be like this.
For us, things were even before kids then when they were born it was like a switch flipped. I don’t know what the answer is but I am 100% CERTAIN that the solution is not my job. I shouldn’t have to teach a grown man how to behave and it isn’t my fault that he behaves this way (insert all the sexist tropes here about women just needing to let the man do things their own way/having too high a standard etc).
There was a famous article in Ms MAGAZINE in the 70s about needing a wife.
I’m with you Maree. I did years of therapy and even marriage counseling to try and get my husband to share more of the load. It’s not that I don’t try and I don’t like people implying that.
Especially this time of year, my husband expresses envy for my lifestyle – part-time work, ability to enjoy the sunshine during the week, gardening, etc. And it’s true. I am very lucky and I don’t forget that. BUT. What must it be like, I wonder, to always have meals at the ready, and to never – NEVER – think about “what’s for dinner” and what groceries are in the house and do the boys have enough food for snacks, etc.? What must that be like? I am also the SOLE person who is in charge of any and all school-and-health related things. Doctor, dentist, orthodontist…
Yes, he works tons of long hours, but he never has to think of those things!
YES. It’s not that I’m not lucky—but I wonder what it’s like to be THAT OTHER KIND of lucky.
My situation is somewhat different, in that I have always been the one at a full-time job outside the home, and my husband has been a stay-at-home parent for 12 years. And I am lucky because he bears the brunt of the home things. BUT, even though he physically does most of the work for the children and the house, I would say I do more of the MENTAL work. And it’s killing me slowly. But it just doesn’t occur to him to make sure there are, for example, presents for the birthday party, or thank-you cards for teachers…and what probably annoys me most is, if I didn’t do it, it just wouldn’t get done, and the world would keep turning. Which makes everything feel futile.
We had a discussion about this one day where I took a day off from work and was cleaning the kitchen, doing laundry, etc. and he was sitting on the couch playing a video game. He commented, “I see you in there doing all that work while I’m messing around. And I do not feel at all guilty.” And how does that work? I DO feel guilty, all of the time! What it must feel like to be him…I understand that he shouldn’t feel guilty and I shouldn’t either; but actually making my feelings match that knowledge, it does not happen.
Can I just say that these comments are GRIPPING? I keep coming back to read the new additions because this thread makes me want to alternately APPLAUD and GNASH MY TEETH!!!
I have a lot of comments and I’m not reading any first.
Context: DH and I both work outside of the home FT. I have bounced around with different arrangements (home FT, work PT, etc.). This works best for me/us. We have an au pair. Kids are 10, 8 and 5. Youngest starts K next year. During the time in my life when I worked only at home for no pay, I would had all of those responsibilities for my Dh/family that you listed in your blog.
Now, I do none of those things for my DH. I don’t do his laundry or buy his clothes. This means that he sometimes wears stained clothes. Or dirty clothes. Or socks with holes in them. But if he doesn’t care, then I don’t care. I’ve embraced the art of NOT GIVING A F*CK.
I do most of the doctor/kid scheduling, but I realized that was unfair. So now I’m in charge of the dentist and he’s in charge of the pediatrician. He does all paperwork for specialists. I handle any billing snafus. I also pay the bills.
Keeping the schedule (which is quite complicated) / birthday presents / Christmas / all that jazz falls on me. But I don’t do it for his side of the family. So for example, I sent my MIL a mother’s day card FROM ME. Because I love her and I wanted to. I don’t think he did anything. Not my problem.
My oldest does her laundry. She does it terribly. She wears mismatched socks and wrinkly clothes. She does not care. I’ve told her that people might make comments about her clothes. She does not care. So I DO NOT GIVE A F*CK.
My middle puts away her laundry, the AP does it, but I’m going to start training her this summer. She also wears random mismatched clothes, etc. She doesn’t care, so I don’t either.
I still do more household work (cooking dinner, dishes, “other laundry – towels, sheets,” vacuuming, dusting, cleaning the bathrooms, picking up, etc.). But this post made me realize what a good job I had done in pushing off so much to my spouse. Which makes me very, very happy.
OH, even more. I don’t do the grocery shopping, either. I just kind of… stopped. I was ok with having fast casual every night. DH wasn’t. So he puts in an order with InstaCart every Sunday. He checks in with me for things like “do we need more salsa” and I’ll throw out there “hey, add in some laundry detergent.” But it’s generally on him. And then whomever gets home first cooks. So I’ve even gotten out of grocery shopping.
My question is, what would it look like if he shared your burdens equally, and you shared his equally? Is that even vision-able?
Oh yes! Well, maybe! At least I can ENVISION it. But I think it has to wait until the kids are older and I can get a job. (I tried a part-time one, but it was not manageable with the schedule and we were all like “THIS IS RUINING OUR LIVES.”) But one of my fears is that it can NEVER be even, because by spending all these years out of the work force I’ve wasted my degree and ruined my chances of getting any kind of job I’ll like. So no matter what, he’ll have the fulfilling/rewarding work and I’ll have a job I suffer at—and then I’ll come home from that job and have to fight with him about housework!
Swistle — what *is* your degree and or what kind of work/career would you find fulfilling (if you don’t mind sharing)? I am sincerely interested.
I have a bachelor’s degree in business with an emphasis in Human Resources. I changed majors half a dozen times and STILL can’t figure out what I would want to do! Like, even if I imagine NO obstacles (no worrying about additional education needed or lack of talent or difficulty in achieving the job) I STILL can’t think of anything. The only thing I was REALLY REALLY INTERESTED in doing was having kids—but it turned out even having five kids didn’t take up all the working years, and NOW what? (It seems like the obvious thing would be to take care of other people’s kids, but I only really like my own kids.)
Thanks! I don’t know the answer (heck, I like my own job and yet often find myself wondering how I landed in it and whether it is really right for me…), but I do (more or less) see what you mean.
Taking up a bit what you & Sadie discuss below I do think there is a scale issue that maybe is “worse” for SAH parents than for people who WOH. Even ignoring the question of how-many-kids (I have one…), I think it may be more likely that if someone in a workplace went the logistical equivalent of being-responsible-for-5-kids to, say, being-responsible-for-5-kids-1-with-Crohns-and-1-with-scoliosis, there would be accompany adjustments made (hire an assistant, give a raise — something) in a way that isn’t true for a parent. Though obviously this ignores a lot of variation in employers and types of employment (and I’m guessing the jobs that get “adjusted” more frequently are those more frequently … occupied by men. Just a guess! Though also an empirically testable hypothesis). Anyway, I ramble, but you see (I hope) my point.
When you describe it like this I realize that time is such a precious commodity – and that how we set things up at the beginning has huge long-term consequences. If you’d been working from the beginning, it wouldn’t be this add on to manage with the new schedule, because there wouldn’t be the entitlements of how everyone is used to having things, maybe? Not to say that that’s what you should’ve done, or that everybody NEEDS TO WORK OUTSIDE THE HOME. Just musing. Thanks for sharing.
I think in this case it’s family size: if I’d been working from the beginning, there’s no way we could/would have had five kids, because we wouldn’t have been able to manage it with me working. And then, if we’d only had the more typical two kids, there would be only 2/5ths of the number of appointments and extracurriculars and so forth to deal with logistically. And we wouldn’t have had either the kid with Crohn’s disease or the kid with scoliosis or the kid with allergies. …Now I’m making myself sad picturing that alternate reality!
But also, as I understand it, families with two working parents are losing their minds trying to get everything done (especially the woman, if it is a man and a woman)—so if I’d been working all along, my guess is that we’d have two children and be in those similar straits.
I am recently divorced after decades of doing pretty much everything necessary for our family’s daily lives to operate smoothly. One day *after* we had split up but while we were still living under the same roof, speaking to each other as little as possible, this happened:
Ex, announcing: I need new underwear
Me: …..
Ex, repeating: I need some new underwear.
Me, again: ….. (this time with extra wtf??? attitude)
Me: Do … do you think I’m going to take care of that for you?
Ex: Well, … (ie yes)
Me: There are stores that sell clothing. Go to one of them. Buy some underwear.
Ex: What kind do I like?
Me: (head explodes)
Why yes, congratulations ARE in order for my divorce!
Swistle has hinted at the Life OF Paul many times I. Her writings but reading the comments on this post just has me baffled. It certainly gives the impression that this kind of thing is more common than I realized. For anyone feeling super raged about it, I’ll offer some hope! My husband and I both work FT but he does probably 65-70% of the division of labor for our family.
He grocery shops and cooks dinner, is in charge of all the bills and finances, maintains the yard, deals with all the “random” stuff that happens like broken hvacs, etc. When our daughter was born I immediately instituted an alternating-day schedule where every other day is “our day” to get up early with her, fix her breakfast/bottles, pack for school, etc. We split other things for her like bath time, pediatrician, getting teacher appreciation cards etc 50-50. We split dishwashing 50-50. I probably do more of the daily cleaning like kitchen countertops, vacuuming because it bothers me more but we split big cleaning on the weekends evenly.
HOWEVER we do our own laundry and personal shopping for clothes, shoes, personal toiletries etc. I think I would be weirded out if H did any of that for me and I don’t really want him to. And H would never have it as an expectation of me to do that for him. We fell into some of this naturally as independent, functioning adults and other parts were the result of reasonably communicating expectations and needs.
I will add that our experience is quite normal among our other married couple friends which is why I am finding this conversation so fascinating.
Stay tuned. You may hear about the glass ceiling and pink-collar jobs. Just as baffling and fascinating.
But really, you may wish to consider the root of your detached obliviousness.
Some years ago I read an article where in the author’s opinion there is no excuse for not doing missions work (it was a Christian article, but could be about any type of volunteer work). The author said he had been making excuses for why he couldn’t do this or that and his mentor made an off hand remark about activity taking up as much time as you give it (or something like that). He goes on to say how he did some introspection on how he spent his time ad found that he could trim his TV watching time and this time and that time thus freeing up time for volunteer work. My default setting is guilt, so I started feeling guilty over my lack of volunteer activities. Then I went back to his daily schedule – he had mentioned a family, but at no point in his schedule did he block out grocery shopping, errands, food prep, kid wrangling and so on. Well, of course you can cut out some TV time and be able to volunteer! I gave up my TV time for homework help and bathtime, so should I find a volunteer for that?
This happended when my girls were young. By the time my son came along they were 14 and 10 and helped with lots of stuff so now we do family volunteering.
Wow. I can only indirectly relate to this – through observing my mom’s relationship with my father. Food magically appears in front of him, he has an endless supply of clean clothes, my mom makes sure all his medicine is in order and remind him to take it, she sets up doctor’s appointment for him.
I had a big WTF moment recently when she was packing his clothes for him for a trip. WUTTT.
It truly is like having another child.
I truly have been privileged that my long term BF does not expect this of me. Chores have never a point of contention for us, because who ever is home and available just does them. Maybe times truly are changing?