I am cranky because this morning Paul left for a business trip and he left stuff for me to do just EVERYWHERE. Like, when I go away for a couple of days, I make a deliberate effort NOT to leave things behind for someone else to do: I wash my breakfast pan and I put my dishes in the dishwasher, I clear any dishes from my desk, I move any of my stuff/projects out of the main areas other people might want to use. I don’t want to look as if I’m blithely taking advantage of my absence to get out of cleaning up after myself: “Ooo, sorry, I WOULD have cleaned that up but I have to go now sorry byyeeeeeeeee!!”
Paul seems to have no such concern. If anything, his usual morning habit of leaving his frying pan and breakfast dishes for the cleaning fairies (he WOULD have taken care of them when he got HOME, clearly) seems to multiply exponentially. This morning there was the frying pan and dishes, but also a large dirty cutting board, a pill bottle, his packing list, pajamas on the floor near the laundry basket, his work thermos with the leftovers of Friday’s coffee-with-cream still in it, an empty carry-on bag he apparently decided not to take, the ice cube tray he usually uses with his work thermos, a pile of stuff he took out of his work bag so he could use it as a carry-on, and more. All the Easter stuff from yesterday was still spread out everywhere, including the scissors and ribbon and tape he got out for the egg hunt and then just left on the counter as if that’s where it lives now. And this is the day the cleaning people were coming, so I had to deal with it all first thing.
I hate stuff like this. I hate stuff where one person is like “Ug, what is the BIG DEAL??” and the other person is like “THIS IS SYMBOLIC OF EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE.” I remember one of many times I complained to Paul about this sort of behavior (i.e., leaving things undone and then skying off to work, but then acting as if it’s my choice to handle them or not), he was like “FINE, if it’s SO HARD, I’ll do it!!”—and I was like, “GOOD, YES, DO IT THEN,” but also: it is not that it’s “so hard” (and thank you for that stupid tone of voice), it’s that it’s NOT so hard and yet you LEAVE IT FOR ME TO DO ALL THE TIME AS IF I AM YOUR PERSONAL SERVANT. Like, one of us just sails along, confidently leaving detritus for someone else to deal with, and THE OTHER OF US DOES NOT. Over the years, that accumulates into something that is very hard to deal with indeed.
And, when I object/complain/explain, nothing changes. You know that famous “He’s not a MIND-READER!” argument, used almost exclusively to defend men-people? Like, people (usually women-people) are standing around the internet complaining about their spouses, and there is always someone who has to say in a coaching, overly-patient tone of voice, “Have you TALKED to him about it? He can’t know how much it bothers you unless you TELL him”—as if this approach would be BRAND-NEW INFORMATION to literally anyone, let alone people married for decades. “Oh, TELL HIM I don’t like something?? That never occurred to me, an adult person!! Thank you, thank you!! With all your natural talents, have you considered getting into the rewarding field of ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS??”
And, like, first of all, I find I don’t generally need to be specifically told that the irritating, inconsiderate things that cause work/inconvenience for the people I live with will bother them, so I’m not sure why Paul can’t figure most of it out himself in the same way I did, like by being a person who exists in the world. Obviously we’ll each occasionally need to be told when it’s something we don’t yet know (like if I didn’t realize it bothers him when I have a dozen sample bottles on the bathroom counter, or if he didn’t know that my sweater can’t go in the dryer, or if I didn’t know his work thermos needs a special washing technique)—but I’m just saying there’s a lot of GENERAL knowledge easily available without specific, personal instruction. I’m not a mind-reader either, but Paul doesn’t have to give me a careful, detailed, multi-step explanation for why I shouldn’t put piles of folded laundry all over our bed and then leave for the weekend. NO ONE is hoping to choose between finishing someone else’s chore or else sleeping on the couch. NO ONE is hoping to choose between washing someone else’s frying pan or else having it in the way all day / not being able to use it. NO ONE wants to pick someone else’s pajamas and underwear up off the floor and move them three feet over to the laundry basket. NO ONE’S thermos improves by sitting out for a week with leftover coffee-with-cream in it. I don’t feel it’s my Personal Life’s Duty and Honor to give Paul a continuous stream of detailed, personal instructions Just For Him about the things NO ONE likes/wants. There is nothing remotely similar in life that Paul has to do for me.
And, second of all, the “Just TELL him!” approach makes it seem as if the only thing standing between me and relief is using my words—and, even more irritatingly, that if I don’t speak up, it’s my fault if unjustifiable behavior continues (HOW ELSE COULD HE POSSIBLY KNOW WITHOUT BEING PERSONALLY INSTRUCTED). So then especially when I HAVE used my words, when I have clearly and calmly explained what I don’t like, why I don’t like it, and what should be done instead, and then NOTHING CHANGES, it is hard to know what the next step is. Repeating the process? But no, that doesn’t seem to work either—and also, it has the added charm of being labeled “nagging” or “always complaining.” So THEN what? Screaming? Spritz bottles? Marital duplexes? Abolishing the institution of marriage entirely? Sending certain people (I’m not saying certain men-people but I’m not NOT saying it) to specialized training camps so that their spouses don’t have to spend decade after decade parenting them through basic human behavior?
Spritz bottles!! (I’m chuckling at my desk, imagining that strategy put to good use in my home. Possibly also applicable for teenagers!)
No tips or tricks here, just saying, “Yes, that happens here too, and it is endlessly frustrating.”
That is so annoying. When I go out of town (either will the entire family, or with just me and Coach, or just me and a kid to tour colleges or Irish dancing competitions, etc), I always make food for the people staying home – so Coach doesn’t need to be bothered with food prep. I also bring food with me on my travels. It is a lot of work, and it is greatly under appreciated. When Coach goes out of town, he doesn’t leave stuff laying around but his absence leaves me burdened with more chauffeuring of kids, etc. When I leave town, I typically organize enough rides, etc. so that he is NOT burdened.
And whether he is in town or if he leaves town – he has PILES like enormous, can-bury-a-small-child piles of paper (physical therapy journals and education materials) surrounding the recliner he sits in in the family room. He gets very exasperated when I point out that he needs to eliminate some. Brace yourself, sometimes he uses the phrase: ‘I work all day.’ AS IF I EAT BON BONS ALL DAY? I babysit for teachers kids during the school day, so I am physically in my house – but I stay pretty busy. It boils my blood.
I love the description of the person suggesting that you just let him know what is bothering you. Brilliant!
“I work all day” OMG
if I ask my husband to do something and follow up if it appears he hasn’t done it he often replied “I have a JOB you know”. This makes me violently angry – because I too have a job you know AND I make way more money and yet I do 75% of household/kid management and chores. Plus he travels a lot.
Just typing this makes me upset.
Jd. righteous anger. That is ridiculously infuriating.
I’m only 27 years into this institution, but I’m convinced that they perform this ritual in order to assert that they do not accept responsibility for the condition of the home, full stop. It is simply beneath them to have Caring being their default, so active Not Caring is performed.
I grieve for our collective wasted breath EXPLAINING. Do you ever wonder what we could have accomplished with the energy we spent flailing at people Not Caring? Sometimes I do, and it makes me sad.
All I know for sure is that I would never re-marry if I became divorced or widowed. Nope. Nuh uh.
Agreed. I’m 22 years into this institution. Exhausting. And I would absolutely NEVER remarry. Nope. Never.
Strong same. My parents were married 50+ years when my dad died and my mom has said more than once that she will never marry again. Not because their marriage was some kind of love story out of a made for TV movie (although they did love each other). It’s because it was a lot of work having a husband and no thanks to that again.
Oh, lovely. I will say, that the Caring / Not Caring does seem to align with gender ~90% of the time, but there are those 10% of husbands who Care and their spouses Don’t. It was very … interesting… for me to watch my MIL and FIL flail about because their DIL (not me) Didn’t Care, and their son was the one doing all of the Stuff. It was appalling and insulting and boorish of her. Yet, when their other son (my husband) engaged in those behaviors…. There. Was. No. Comment.
Silently seething about this
Oh Swistle, I’m sorry that Paul is frustrating, but…am I allowed to say that for your vent posts are among your most hilarious, and so part of me is not sorry that Paul is so frustrating? But no, I really am sorry.
BTW, Hi! I started reading your blog in…2008/9, and will you believe me if I say that I related so much to you as a 20 year old college student with no children and no desire (at that point in my life) to have children? I marveled that on paper no aspect of your life matched mine, and I dont think we’re that similar in terms of personality, yet still I felt like sometimes you were speaking from my soul? I read diligently for a few years, then (oops) mostly stopped reading all blogs, and am just falling back in love now. I’m now an almost 30 year old, still without children but MAYBE softening up to the idea. I hope you will take this all as a compliment and not run for the hills.
Re: Paul’s lack of consideration…My fiance and I are of the rare Male Who Does Housework and Woman Who is Uncleanly variety, which is a nice way of saying that I am…somewhat of a slob, though not as much of one as Paul seems to be. You hit the nail on the head when you say that because Paul isn’t bothered by clutter, he needs to be told to clean up, and being told isn’t the same as actually caring. I am not bothered by extra dishes in the sink, and while I know intellectually that too many bother my fiance, it is an easy thing to ignore if I am not thinking about it, feeling lazy, or yes, being thoughtless. If I am in a bad mood I even start getting resentful: “If it doesn’t bother me to see some papers not put away, why should I have to live by HIS cleaner standards? Why is HIS way automatically the right way? It inconveniences ME to do this and makes his life better. Why shouldn’t HIS life be inconvenienced by some clutter, thereby reducing the amount of work I have to do?” Because I love him and want to contribute to a happy household is why I dont (usually) give way to these thoughts, but it has to be a constant reminder and choice for me, is what I’m saying.
Anyway, I realize this doesn’t help you at all. Just thought it might be interesting to see the other perspective. I originally meant this to be like a “I am Paul, and what works for me is when my fiance _______,” but then realized that I dont actually have any helpful fills for the blank. Perhaps I am most motivated to clean when my fiance DOESN’T do it, so finally I reach tipping point of being able to tolerate the mess, and I clean it up. Or, for example, if he doesn’t automatically bring my cup in for me, I will usually do it before bed, or at least the next morning. I guess this isn’t too helpful, since being the person less tolerant of mess and also the person who is at home the longest sets you up to lose that game of chicken. Sorry :(
It isn’t even a neatness/cleanliness issue: I’m more cluttery than Paul, and less fussed by dirt. It’s that he puts things in my way, and then leaves the house. Like, I don’t HAVE to wash his breakfast pan—but if I don’t, I can’t use it. And I don’t HAVE to move all the stuff he put on the counter before leaving for a week—but if I don’t, I can’t make dinner. And, like, the reason he should do the work isn’t because he loves me and wants a happy household, it’s that he made the mess and so he should be the one to clean it up.
THIS
Where do I start agreeing with everything you just said. We are in a phase right now (38 years) where my husband just retired and we have moved to an inherited family house where I’ve been spending summers for about six years while he stayed back at our full-time home. So it’s complicated by the fact that I have everything pretty much exactly the way I like it and here comes this teenaged boy messing with everything. I swear he does it just to troll me. Can you believe I actually had to tell him to NOT CONTINUE TO KICK HIS SHOES OFF SO THEY HIT THE WALL? The wall I just painted a week ago? Also, I am NOT retired and yet who is doing 95 percent of the housework? DH is so sweet that he THANKS me when I do the dishes or clean up. Hey, pal, I do not want THANKS, I want HELP. Your thoughts and prayers are meaningless to me. I actually referred to the house as “Susan’s Hotel” the other day. To be clear, this behavior is not new, but it is particularly galling coming from someone who literally has nothing else to do with their time.
I work full time at an office and my husband also recently retired. He literally almost does not leave the house. He has picked up a couple of extra loads of laundry every week which is nice. Other than that, though… If I’m spending half a day of my weekend doing some crappy chore that obviously needs to be done and he has been home reading, napping, eating, etc. every single day, it really chaps me. I have suggested a few things he could do “if he wants to feel useful” and stuck a list on the refrigerator but so far he acts like he pretty much doesn’t need to do anything he doesn’t feel like doing. Must be nice!
That’s enraging.
I feel ya.
Don’t you wish you could go back into your respective childhoods and compare how many hours your parents spent teaching each of you how to be tidy/considerate? Because I’d guess that the girls were taught this stuff constantly and the boys, not nearly as much. Or perhaps the boys were mocked if they were “fastidious.”
My parents taught us all, but the result is that the brother who had roommates didn’t like living with other guys, because they were such slobs. Clearly other parents are not providing the stiffening sorts of nudges our youth need.
I think so much of this is nature, not nurture. Like maybe a 90/10 split. My sister and I never had a single chore required of us during our years of living at home, while my husband’s mother had lists and chore charts and taught all the kids how to do all the jobs. That didn’t do me any good since I’m not willing to chart and/or list the jobs that I’d like my husband to do. My mother-in-law believed it must be my fault that the house was messy.
Marital duplex? Yes please! Last night my husband and I were having a disagreement about whether or not to watch a show as I family that would have kept our 9 yo daughter up 15-20 minutes past her bedtime. I said I didn’t think it was a big deal. Husband said, “fine, but don’t expect me to help.” I. Lost. It. Dear reader, I stopped expecting him to help about 16 years ago (coincidentally the year our oldest was born). I’m definitely not over this and he will likely not enjoy the itemized list I will be delivering of invisible labor I do to keep our household running. On top of my nearly full time job.
I once made a list like that for my husband, when I stayed home with a preschooler and a baby and he wondered why the house wasn’t more clean. It included every diaper change, every potty trip, every laundry load and household-related phone call and snack and Barbie dressing emergency and book-reading request. He stuck it on his cabinet at work and never, ever made another comment. :) I highly recommend this strategy.
I mean a marital duplex is not a TERRIBLE idea. Have you considered housing Paul in the barn?
NOW I AM
I just came back from a trip yesterday. Dh was home with the dogs, I had the two “kids” (17, 23) with me.
While I was ‘on vacation’ I grocery shopped, we ate 2/3 of the meals in our rental, I did our laundry etc.
When I came home, his laundry was piled up, dog hair was everywhere, there were no groceries and no milk, and the grass was literally knee high. I had to mow it twice to get it to a normal height. I have literally worked my ass off today to make up for being on vacation.
I have no words.
I had the SAME experience the other week, but it was coming home from a business trip. A business trip that I had to exhaustively prepare for (whereas my husband just…leaves town). And things that I had specifically left a note about because they were Time Dependent were not done. On top of the NOTMAL stuff that was also not done. And on top of THAT I was leaving town for my younger son’s soccer tournament and my husband, after driving my car all week long, thoughtfully left it COMPLETELY EMPTY OF GAS. I lost my ever loving mind.
Hmmm, it would have been satisfying to put all his (dirty) stuff in a box for him to deal with upon his return, but it sounds like it’s too late for that. Next time!
THIS! This is what I do with my 18 year old. I’m not married, and likely never will be (AND I AM OK WITH THAT). She has a chore list and MINIMAL expectations and for the last few years I don’t say a word and just box/bag up her stuff and deposit it in her room (sometimes I dump it on her bed). My friend says it’s petty, I say it’s incredibly satisfying!
I handle 99% of laundry in my house. Recently our dryer broke and my husband, thankfully, is very handy and jumped right into fixing it. He appreciates that I do the laundry, he said! He’s doing his part! And yet! He has commented several times how the (front-loader) washer has some dried stain remover over-spray on the glass door. Yes? And? This is not harming its function in any way. And if I gave two cares about it, I would clean it. Dear friends, I do not give two cares about a literal cleaning product on the outside of my washer. Will I wipe it off? Probably, but only so I don’t have to hear about it anymore.
Wow, I don’t know if this was intended to be a group vent session, but thank you.
ABSOLUTELY A GROUP VENT SESSION, YES BRING IT ON
Rather than commenting several times, wouldn’t it be easier for him to just . . . wipe it off himself?
I’m really pretty furious with my DH right now. I work full time. He is a slob (I am too, but my threshold for mess is lower), he hates having cleaners in the house, and he works from home on independent projects. Occasionally he’ll clean the kitchen, and god forbid I don’t praise him to the skies.
It’s a darned good thing we have separate bathrooms is all I can say.
There are other reasons I’m mad at him, but that’s the big one right now.
I want to clarify that my DH does do most of the cooking and food shopping, and loads the dishwasher almost all of the time, but he gets annoyed with me when I start cleaning the kitchen (like wiping crumbs off the counter, or grease off the stove), because he says, “Honey, I should be doing that” and then I think, “THEN WHY DON’T YOU?”
I don’t mind doing it if it’s my job, but he seems to think it’s his job and doesn’t want me to do it, and doesn’t do it himself.
Same with the bathrooms.
And the floors.
And the trash.
And it’s not like I want to do those things, but he doesn’t want me to do them either and then he doesn’t do them and doesn’t want to hire cleaners to do them.
And he only does his own laundry, even though we had a shared hamper system, he started using only his own hamper and didn’t do anyone else’s wash.
It…drives me nuts.
OTOH, my husband used to see me doing something and join me doing the same thing, and it bugged me to no end. We have 43 things that need doing around the house, go find one of the other 42. I’ve got this. (I realize in your case he did not got this, because the boiled-over rice film was just going to be on the burners forever.)
He also picks the time I am in the kitchen cooking as the best occasion to unload the dishwasher, then stands there pointedly staring at a cabinet to which he needs access. Fun fact! I was not standing in front of that cabinet 15 minutes ago. But now it’s half an hour before dinner, so I’m here cooking dinner, as I do practically every night.
YIKES
Yeah my husband does this too. I run home for lunch because I like to do that but I end up with about 20 minutes at the house to grab my lunch. It’s weird but I’d still rather do that than pack my lunch or go out every day. So he has to make his frickin’ lunch during the 20 minutes I’m home trying to get my stuff or use the microwave or whatever. Just. Wait. 20 minutes. And stay out of my way.
THIS SO MUCH! Why do you pick the same chore I am doing? There are so many other things to clean!
YES, this one! I am pregnant and also trying to keep a household running. My two least favorite comments are “Leave that for me/you shouldn’t be doing that!” and “Just tell me what to do!”
1. If I leave it for you, it won’t get done.
2. There are two adults in our house. If I shouldn’t be doing it, who does logic demand complete the task?
3. We are both adults. You have equally as capable as I am to see what needs to be done and accomplish it.
This
OMG yes, the praise! That is what kills me. When he empties the dishwasher, he expects a ticker tape parade. And if he doesn’t get enough praise, he pouts and won’t do it again any time soon. KILLS ME.
YES. Ticket tape parade because he picked up his own dirty socks.
I am not saying “all men,” because I am sure that there are some men who are decent, thoughtful human beings when it comes to this sort of thing.
I will say, however, that my husband is not among them. In my more exasperated moments, I think it’s a combination of laziness and self-importance. It’s not that they consciously walk around thinking “I am too important to put recycling into a bin.” It’s that they think whatever it is they want to do is more important than actually contributing to the household. Even when I ask, 90% the time, my husband says that he’ll do something “later.” On the occasions that I’ve let whatever it was ride, “later” does not mean “before morning,” which is generally when it would ideally be done. “Later” means “perhaps in 6 months if you don’t do it first, and only if you ask me to do it many, many, many more times.”
It irritates me because yes, I could talk to him about it, but the thing is, I don’t want to become the nagging wife. I don’t want to have to explain how much he’s adding to my burden every day of the week. Because each little individual item is exactly that: little. “Could you put your dish and your fork into the dishwasher?” “Hey, you left out this empty box of cereal,” “Please put your clean clothes away instead of leaving them in the hamper you insisted you wanted.” “Bathing the kid means he comes out of the water without face schmutz and with clean hair.” “You left crumbs all over the counter, please clean them up.” “For the love of God, bring back ALL of the scissors from wherever you’ve taken them.” Etc. etc. etc., ad infinitum. If the man is capable of completing an advanced degree in engineering, he is mentally capable of DOING IT WITHOUT BEING MOMMED MORE THAN THE TODDLER.
He does have good qualities. But household basics are areas in which he could seriously raise his game.
Yes. YES. I do not want to have to give EVERY SINGLE LITTLE INSTRUCTION/DEFINITION.
I want to be able to send you to the store without having you call me 3 times to tell you exactly where the item is!
Related anger: When H says something like “just tell me what to do.” NO! I AM NOT YOUR MOTHER. I AM NOT ALSO GOING TO DO THE EMOTIONAL LABOR OF TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO. OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN’ EYES AND LOOK AROUND JUST LIKE I DO. ARGH!! Whew, sorry to yell but this on top of the not doing things often feels like the rage tipping point for me.
Ugh mine says that all the time! But why am I in charge of telling you what needs to be done AGAIN? You live here, and I told you the last 200 times.
Right! Right! Like, do I ask HIM to tell ME what needs to be done?? NO I DO NOT. I somehow, perhaps by WOMAN MAGIC, figure it out using my EYES AND BRAIN!!
OMG, THIS!
I will get texts from my kids while I’m out at work or an activity asking if they can do or have something, and I ask if their dad isn’t home because he’s in charge in that case and they say “he told us to ask you”. Why do I have to make all the decisions? I am BUSY at that moment, as evidenced by the fact that I’m not home! I’m never away for no reason at all!
To be fair, my exasperation also probably comes from the fact that the kids need to be told every little thing like this too and I’m the only one that has to think and plan and explain in the house. I can’t say “tidy up the kitchen”, I have to say, pointing “This, this and this are yours, put them away. Recycle that. Wipe up the juice you spilled – use the dishcloth for the counter part and the floor rag for the part on the floor.” etc. Yes, this is part of being a mom, but FTLOG my kids are now both in double digits: I would have expected the specificity to be able to end a few years ago at this point.
This describes our interactions exactly. I hate to be in the roldof nagging wife but otherwise I am cleaning up after him every step of the way. The scissors!!! My husband seems to be incapable of putting items away once he is done using them. They will just sit there until I ask him enough times to put them away or just do it myself 😭
The SCISSORS! It’s my kids who are the culprits there, but how many things can possibly need snipping to the point you need to steal all 3 pairs of my scissors from the kitchen?
I’m going to guess three things. Hence the disappearance of three pairs of scissors.
Dear Lord, the “later.” As if asking him to put down his phone for five minutes to take out the garbage right now is SUCH AN IMPOSITION. I feel you.
This reminds me about something else I feel is equally and endlessly irritating: micro-managing my husband with his household duties. I manage people all day: small beings I birthed who have to be taught, again and again, how to do chores; and the people at work. The last thing I want to do is micro-manage the person who is SUPPOSED to be my equal partner in managing a household, but micro-manage I must. And I TELL HIM. I tell him that I find it annoying that I must constantly ask him to do things “for me” that must be done all the time. Would it kill him to notice that the laundry hamper is full and start a load? Or does he just not understand that every night after dinner the dishes must be washed? Does he really not know that the dog needs to be fed every. single. day? And so it goes: everyday I must either nag him relentlessly or do all the chores myself, fuming. It’s infuriating.
Marital duplexes. Seriously.
Okay, not entirely seriously. But the house we just bought is a daylight ranch and the downstairs is ALL MINE. So there’s only so much she can clutter and otherwise mess up, and I can just … go into my own private space that I have just the way I want it and it makes me less homicidal.
Yes! And once you have voiced your displeasure – at least in my experience – they do better, for a time. And before you know it he is once again leaving the closet door wide open! Why, yes – that is the current bone of contention in this house.
I am a solid Type A, and my dearest is way past Type B. He wanted to invite overnight guests with one’s days notice, and honestly, truly, had no clue as to why I was breathing into a paper bag. I do more housework because my tolerance for the mess is lower. He does all the finances and research for stuff we buy. We each think we got the better part of the deal. But it does gripe me that he SIMPLY DOESN’T UNDERSTAND that balled up wet washcloths get stinky and that the garbage doesn’t magically take itself out. And he’s not above commenting that an overflowing recycling basket is irritating. Oh, really? It is? Gee, you would think the scientific community would have invented a solution! Like haul your ass to the recycling bin. Or maybe that’s just in my house.
This stuff drives me bananas!!!!!!!
The only “solution” I can ever think of to this problem of inconsiderate mess leaving is to leave the mess. But it’s an awful solution because a) then *I* have to live with the mess until he notices/does something about it and b) HE NEVER NOTICES. We could live for fifty years with a dirty pan and it would remain invisible to one of us – although I fear eventually he would forget it was his and wonder why I hadn’t taken care of it and instead of washing it FOR ME he would accept it as some sort of modern art installation.
Also, and this is a comment on a very small point from your post, but one of the most frustrating ENDLESS arguments in my marriage is the “should we tidy before the housecleaners come.” YES is the answer because the housecleaner is there to CLEAN, not pick up pajamas from the foot of the bed or move ten half full water glasses from the nightstand to the dishwasher but he disagrees to the point that I wonder if he is from another planet.
I love these posts, because I feel so much the same way. (This reminds of that one about doing things a different way vs doing things the wrong way and getting pumpkin pie mix vs pumpkin at the store.)
I dated, and married, a man who was the least typical man behavior I could find. We were really similar, and balanced, and it worked out pretty well. And then his career took off (of course) and I started taking on more home stuff and then we had one kid and two kids and I stayed at home. And now I am dealing with three humans who can’t see the thing at the top of the stairs as they walk down. I spent 10 years so smug, SO SMUG, that he never ever left the toilet seat up and I didn’t even have to train him. Guess who leaves the toilet seat up a majority of the time now? Particularly rage inducing as I was toilet training my daughter two years ago.
Anyway, I am feeling this particularly strongly tonight and it is just particularly tiresome and wearying to be the fallback person who always picks up the slack.
Marital duplex indeed.
MARITAL DUPLUXES! 100% YES.
I have given up on my husband developing the awareness and willpower to actually help. Now I just beg him to stop making it HARDER for me. Like, fine, you would rather eat your cereal with a serving spoon than run the dishwasher. Great. I get it. But could you NOT pour your leftover cereal sludge into the sink drain strainer thing and leave it to dry so I have to chisel it off later?
I relate to everything above, but especially this. For the love of god, just rinse out the sink. It takes 5 seconds and all you have to do is turn on water. Otherwise I’m chipping and scraping at food remnants cemented to the sink and it is so so infuriating and unnecessary.
My husband accuses me of nagging but MY GOD MAN, if you would just do the things that should be a matter of COMMON SENSE then I wouldn’t have to ASK YOU to put the scissors away after you’ve used them. EVERY SINGLE TIME. And why can’t you remember that if you put the pot holders in the wrong drawer it jams and subsequently becomes impossible to open? They go in the bottom drawer. IS THAT SO HARD? Would it be so difficult for you to notice that you’ve gotten bread crumbs all over the counter after making a sandwich? WERE YOU RAISED IN A BARN? APPARENTLY SO.
Amen, girl. I am IN for the marital duplex. Can you even imagine the living conditions in the male side of the duplex? Or would they learn to live like human beings if no one was there to “nag” and/or pick up after them?
I WOULD LOVE TO FIND OUT (from my side of the duplex, where the frying pan was clean when I needed it)
So validating to read this comment section! I’ve been married 23 years, and I’ve given up – given up hope that he’ll get it, not given up bitterness and fuming that he doesn’t. Long ago, when we were living together before marriage, I did a little experiment. I left his pop cans out in the living room to see how long it would take for him to pick them up. After a week we had a giant fight about it, and he said the phrase he has used in pretty much every argument since. “Well, if it bothers you so much, just pick it up. It’s not a big deal”. And yes, I still married him, knowing that. Walked right in with my eyes open. Now I have the upstairs and he has the basement, which gets cleaned when his family visits (by him). He is not allowed to touch my scissors or my favorite spoons. Ridiculous, really, for an intelligent adult to behave this way.
Yes. This.
This has been cathartic to read. We have a family friend that lost her husband a few years ago. My mother was talking about how she hoped the friend would remarry soon. She was surprised I was against it. Why have an old man move in that experts you to cook and clean and take care of him? Also related, basically everyone is waiting for my husband’s grandfather to die so his grandmother can finally live a little! Her life revolves around accommodating her husband. It’s enraging and saddening. My husband is great at household stuff and emotional labor with all his family, but he will still leave the house to run errands with out alerting me and I don’t know where he is. It’s annoying. I always tell him, I can never do that. Moms just can’t leave kids and the house on a whim. It’s just taken for granted that of course I have everything under control.
Might I suggest the Life360 app, or a similar one? It’s free, you can say you’re getting it so he always knows where you are and that makes you feel safer, but really it’s so you can figure out where he’s gone and text him, “Hey, while you’re at the store, will you pick up some toilet paper and milk?” It’s magical. Works on teenagers, too: “Hey, I see you’re at Whataburger, bring me some fries!”
This is a great idea, LeighTX! Thanks!
Thank you for making me laugh! I’ve been convinced of the duplex idea for years! :)
Well. I have been married for 20 years. My husband has many fine qualities. But…
1) Every single night he eats his meal and then stands up and walks away. LEAVING HIS DIRTY PLATE ON THE TABLE. You know, for the fairies.
2) We have four children. There is always washing. When he wants to use the washer he takes whatever is in it (this may be dirty, dry waiting for a full load/clean, wet waiting for me to hang up) AND PUTS IT ON THE FLOOR IN FRONT OF THE MACHINE. Not in the dryer, not on the line, not even in a basket. Directly on the dirty laundry floor. Seriously.
Worst bit is that he does his ‘own’ washing’ (this means only his clothing – not one single other thing, like I don’t know, a towel, or an item of children’s attire) and whenever my Mother sees this she says in a sickly voice ‘He is soooo good’. Which just infuriates me no end. In what world is a grown, adult person putting a load of washing in an automatic washer some sort of moral virtue?? Really and Truly there is no jury on earth that would convict me.
I mean Seriously!
That is enraging.
I recently read the book Fed Up by Gemma Hartley about this exact subject and felt so, so validated. I don’t know what the answer is to this problem but it’s bewildering that literally every woman I know deals with it.
So, to give him his due, my husband does a fair amount of cleaning. He was trainable, by which I mean that one day when our kids were little I had a meltdown and he said “You just have to tell me” and rather than vaporize him I put up a list of “Things that always need doing,” and he does SOME OF them.
But he still doesn’t think things through — which feels like the Paul situation — so although at home he puts his dirty clothes in the hamper, when we travel, he leaves them on the floor even though I always bring a laundry bag or hamper. And when I point out that housekeeping is going to have to pick up his boxers to be able to vacuum, he is surprised. Like, every time.
Neither of us is the best at dealing with clutter, but he is uniquely capable of worrying about my stuff while his is everywhere. (This is also the man who once turned up the baby monitor, which was by my side of the bed, and when I caught him doing it, explained that he wanted to be sure I heard it.) So while his bedside table is piled with maude knows what and he uses partially pulled out drawers as shelves, he will come to me with something of mine and ask if I still use it or can he throw it out. Not your call and it shouldn’t be your priority, o fellow slob and soulmate, and also, why does he never ask if we can donate it instead of sending it to a landfill? Why are his first moves the worst moves?
Several of my friends have gotten divorced recently, and they all found boyfriends in relatively short order. Why? WHY?
(My spouse is a good guy, a good father, funny and kind and all those things, but if he dies first, I will not be looking for romance. I hope everyone takes it as a tribute to our great love rather than the annoyingness of living with another person.)
“maude knows what” I love this.
this especially. I feel you, I live your life.
To everyone else and Swistle. I LOVE AND SEE AND COMMISERATE WITH YOU ALL. Thanks for being so awesome.
“a tribute to our great love,” am stealing this for if/when I need it someday, God forbid.
That last paragraph? Pure gold. And is also what I am thinking.
Lately I have been fantasizing about living in my own little tiny house in the backyard. That way I wouldn’t have to deal with the children (why did you put my 5 sweaters on my bed like I should hang them in the closet instead of draping them over every available hook in the entry way?) or my husband (oh you worked until 5? Can you please grill 3 different meats and have them on the table within a half hour of arriving home? Why are you so mad?) . I could be a guest swanning over when my book gets boring.
When my first (ONE CHILD) was a baby, we had a work schedule where I would work two days, my mom watched the baby one full and one half day, and my husband watched the baby one afternoon.
The three days I was home with the baby, I had dinner on the table when he got home.
The one afternoon he had the baby dinner was never ready or started and I had NURSING HUNGER RAGE. I would asked him about it and he would say that he was “holding the baby.”
So, I stopped making dinner or cleaning up or doing laundry or picking anything up because I, too, was holding the baby (but had managed all those other things until then ).
Miraculously, dinner was about 3/4 done when I got home that friday afternoon when he had the baby.
I can so relate to this post and these comments, thanks to my first marriage. I have now been blessed with a spouse (second husband) who is a partner in every sense — he cleans, does laundry and dishes, etc. I have no idea how I got so lucky — he was in his 40s when we married. He is my best friend.
He’s ill with cancer now and if he succumbs to this fucking awful disease, I will not ever remarry. Nobody else will compare.
The one person who has no complaints about her spouse… and he has cancer….
I hate this so much; how is life fair?
You two are in my thoughts and prayers.
Same. I’ll pray for you both.
This is heartwarming and sad at the same time. I am hoping the awful fucking disease loses.
Re. “He’s not a MIND-READER!” omg, so much rage. Cleaning up after yourself is basic adulting.
Also, I LOVE Slim’s list of “Things that always need doing.” Shouldn’t be necessary, but it’s perfect.
The list, and its success rate:
Things that Always Need Doing
• Put away dishes to the left of the sink
[Basically, dishes that are now clean and dry but were previously only clean. He does this occasionally. Mostly me, though.]
• Wash dishes on the Island of Misfit Dishes (to the right of the sink).
[If he does hand-wash dishes, he does it with the water running, because he hates the earth. But mostly he runs the dishwasher a lot, which is fine, and lives to use the 60-minute cycle because he hates the earth, which is not fine.]
• Clean out refrigerator (toss the old and scary, wipe the shelves).
[Nope. Although he will take something out to eat and then ask me, very anxiously, if I think it’s still OK to eat when the sell-by date was a couple of days ago. Thanks, my dude, I never get tired of providing the same consumer education info to your fragile self.]
• Do laundry, including towels and sheets.
[He does most of the laundry and virtually all of the folding. I hate folding.]
• Change sheets and towels, including kitchen towels.
[He does this for us and for common areas. The boys are in charge of their own sheets, supported by maternal nagging.]
• Clean bathrooms, or parts thereof.
[He usually does this. Not well, but definitely better than nothing. The boys are supposed to clean their own bathroom. Spouse is usually terrible at enforcing chores rather than doing them himself, but this one he does tend to leave for them.]
• Sweep/mop/Swiffer floor.
[He does this.]
• Sort through mail, magazines, and other clutter on flat surfaces.
[Nope. Me. And I got him an organizer and put his stuff front and center and he doesn’t bother, then asks me in a panic to handle it. But when I used to handle it for him, he wasn’t comfortable with that. So.]
• Put toys away →in their proper places←.
[Not as much of an issue now that they’re in middle and high school. But shoes are still a danger, despite our shoe bin right by the front door.]
• Put books away.
[Mostly me.]
• Sort clothes: Store (red tote), Goodwill (paper bag), toss.
[Mostly me, although he does a lot of the Goodwill dropoffs.]
• Filing.
[I took this over because I could not deal with the way things were. He is consistently amazed that I can find whatever paperwork we need, which is gratifying and makes me think he was never going to be good at this. Although he does still have his notebook from his days as treasurer of his high school chess club, so I guess if we ever need that, we’re set.]
Maybe the Parkers had it right: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/23/garden/at-home-with-joan-and-robert-b-parker-a-house-divided-lovingly.html
This is my new fantasy, replacing the “a night to myself in a hotel room” fantasy of the infant/toddler years.
I LOVE that article! the Parkers are living my best life!
“Ms. Parker’s contribution at mealtime is eating.”
YES
I’m the messier one in my relationship and have been known to just kind of dump stuff and leave it there for awhile in my flight through the house. In my defence, I have a full-time job, a part-time job, and a side business, plus we have two kids (ages 10 and 13). My husband has his own full-time business. What gets me though is that I chip away at things on the daily, while he just… doesn’t. Like on a Thursday I’ll get home at 5:30 and have to make and eat dinner to leave for the class I teach at 6:30 (heaven forbid anyone’s done anything about dinner after they got home at 4:00), then I do some grocery shopping after class, get home, put groceries away and maybe do a bit of meal prep, cleaning up the meal stuff as I go, before showering and going to bed. I’m not sure what he does when I’m gone, but it’s rarely anything like housework: when I get home he’s usually either in front of the TV or lying down in bed. On non-teaching nights it’s less hectic, but then I do try to make a point of leaving the house a bit cleaner at the end of the day than it was at the beginning. Not CLEAN, no, no, no. Just clean-ER. Yet my husband complains at the clutter in the dining room! Dude, if you freed me up by taking on more regular stuff, I could tackle bigger projects like that! (And yes, this is mine to tackle – it’s mostly stuff from my late grandmother I haven’t been able to bear going through yet.)
And yes, I do get the kids to do regular chores etc. but I get SO TIRED of nagging them to do it!
This post and all the comments are giving me life. I love you all so much.
Same!
My husband is pretty good but I don’t think he will EVER get over just dropping everything he is holding onto whatever horizontal surface is nearest—desk, kitchen counter, high shelf, bathroom sink, etc. And then he is shocked when he can’t find what he needs or when his important papers get wet or food on them or the kids take them.
THIS. Every person in the house but me uses the kitchen island, and one weird section of kitchen counter, as the place where things rest. This is right in the center of the (not large) kitchen and prime real estate for meal prep. You could take FOUR MORE STEPS and have an entire side table on which to set your crap. Instead, my husband proceeds to make dinner (for which I am grateful, truly) without moving a single item, all of the papers get wet, all of the things get crumbs or sauce on them, and then people get upset. ARE YOU NOT CAPABLE OF LEARNING.
Such a cannot win situation. I’ve read so many pieces of advice against keeping score but after a while, don’t you feel a need to document the number of times that you have asked/instructed/explained … such that it become evident that a lack of improvement must reasonably be considered WILLFUL?
Like I’d be considering printing this blog post out and saying … I’ve booked us marriage counselling and I am bringing this printout. We will be spending $____ so that this bullshit ends.
And a story of my own… Every time we have moved house, several months after moving in, DH is doing his first load of laundry and asks me to teach him how to used the washer/dryer. Did you see anyone teaching ME how to use it? You have TWO engineering degrees. How can you not figure this out?
I was going to make a suggestion of simply throwing his crap into the bin, but then I read the house him in the barn comment, and now I am yes! In the barn! Team Barn!
Look, I can’t add anything that will be remotely helpful in terms of potential solutions to this frustration. All I CAN say is: THANK YOU. When I am going out of town, whether on my own or with husband, I want to leave the house CLEAN, so that I don’t have to clean it all up, plus deal with unpacking detritus, upon my/our return, but ALSO because I don’t want to leave HIM with MY mess to clean up if I’m gone on my own! It just doesn’t seem that hard.
But really, just generally thank you for sharing your frustrations re: Paul and these behaviours so those of us in similar regions of frustration can take solace in the ‘we’re not alone’ feeling.
(The ‘have you tried telling him?’ suggestion just makes me screamy)
I loved every sentence of this post. I loved every comment beneath it. I have come back three separate times to re-read everything.
This is my life. And I hate it. (Love my actual life, btw, just hate being expected to / having to “mom” everyone and everything I encounter every single day.) Let me know when we’re ready for the revolution! I’m in!
Thank you for this post! I do not have a new story or any suggestions, just feel the urge to preach to the choir. My husband does a decent portion of the household affairs, but he almost never does anything beyond that. He does his “list” of tasks usually without being reminded, but ignores other things that arise and/or assumes I’ll attend to them. I’m constantly doing all sorts of random miscellaneous household tasks (often somewhat simultaneously) that are beyond dishes and laundry.
It drives me nuts that he does not offer to help when I’m struggling to get dinner on the table, for example, because the kids and I just got home rather late. He runs for the hills (his easy chair with ipad) when I start getting frustrated in the kitchen, which in turn makes me even more frustrated. When we talk about it later, he says he thinks it’s best to leave me alone when I’m getting frustrated, that I just need to tell him what to do. Gee, how about setting the table and getting water glasses on the table? DH, did you know that needs to be done every evening before we eat dinner? Do I need to interrupt your ipad vegetative state and my dinner making to calmly explain how much I would appreciate your help, like right now? Clearly, it’s much more pleasant for him to zone out and just wait for dinner to appear like magic. My kids probably help prepare dinner more often than DH.
On another note, my sister and her husband aren’t at all bothered to let their home turn into a pig sty. She’s a full-time employee, he’s a SAHD. Every three to six months or so, my sister decides she can’t take the filth and will hire a maid service for a one-time cleaning. It’s interesting seeing their family and home dynamic compared to mine. She does the bare minimum of parenting as well as housework. I admit, I have to bite my tongue to not put sexist expectations on her. Like, she’s acts like a 50’s dad when she’s home with the kids–she will just leave kids to her husband’s care whenever she pleases and rarely changes a diaper. It’s so hard for me to acknowledge to myself that her maternal and nesting instincts manifest differently from mine. … Sorry, I somehow went off on a tangent here. She’s another example of how sometimes it’s females who leave junk lying around and don’t care one bit.
Also, for those of you who have not spent the past 10 years watching the landscape of perpetual male cluelessness, as hilariously depicted for us all by Swistle:
https://www.swistle.com/2009/10/19/or-possibly-yes/
Oh that is classic Swistle and why I adore this blog! I LOL at my desk reading that one.
After a particularly infuriating attempt to vacuum and do laundry (Which was stymied by piles of shoes left on his side of the room and shirts taken off and balled up into a tight little ball why???) I had to come reread these comments again. I am feeling much more soothed and dreaming of a little condo of my very own.
Okay, maybe this is an obvious suggestion, but have any of you considered marrying a lady? It’s legal now, and it avoids basically all of this patriarchal roles/male cluelessness stuff. It might be a bit of a drag if you’re not actually attracted to women, but it seems like you could work around that for the sake of only doing your half of the household and emotional labor.
I’m a lady, though, and my husband makes most of the same complaints about my contribution to housework that I’m reading on here… yes, I’m a mess. Also yes, he asked me on April 15 if we had started doing taxes yet. They had been filed for weeks by the time it occurred to him.
A+
I did this and it works amazingly but I think it’s more than just marrying another woman. It has to be the RIGHT woman. We’re both the sort of people who see things needing to be done and do them, which isn’t a given in a same-sex relationship.
For us, though, there are very few things that only one of us does and that makes the biggest difference for me (compared to prior relationships). Both of us cook, clean, shop, take care of children, etc. So it doesn’t matter that maybe I cook a bit more often because she cooks often enough that it doesn’t ever feel like I’m the only person who does X, which is what makes me crabby.
EVERY single morning my husband makes a smoothie and then very helpfully washes out the Vitamix, because he knows I will also want a smoothie, but without his smoothie remnants. Very thoughtful! But there are always 2 or 3 other dishes in the sink – small things, like a plastic bowl used by one of the kids for a snack the night before, or an dishwasher unsafe item. 2 or 3 things. But he never washes them. Because he’s too busy getting ready for work. But it would be literally an extra 30 seconds.
Please ask him to line up for the Team Duplex head slap or burning glare (his choice).
It’s annoying, right? I mean, I work too! Albeit part-time. But in the mornings I’m also taking the kids to school, etc. Why not take the extra 30 seconds? THE WATER IS IN THE SINK ANYWAY.
When I was in hospital for 5 days having had our first child, my husband was off work. And yes he came in to visit every day but was not there 18 hours a day and it was also not exactly a 6 hour drive from home.
He did not do the dishes ONCE.
This is only one example, of course.
Front of the line for head slaps for him.
Oh my word!!!!! Congrats on not murdering your spouse, Meg. You are an example of self restraint to us all.