I want to talk a little about how it was having Rob home for winter break, because it matched my friend Leigh’s experience having her college-age daughter home, and both of us felt a little grim at all the pictures we saw of other people’s college kids home and doing affectionate selfies with their moms or whatever. “Got my girl back in the nest! Love seeing her sweet face every morning!” and so on. Whereas Leigh and I were not seeing our kids’ faces until more like 3:30 in the afternoon, and the faces did not have particularly sweet expressions on them.
Leigh reported that her daughter was fairly reluctant to do family stuff or participate in household activities, and that she was back-talky and irritable and eye-rolly. Rob was only occasionally back-talky and irritable, but he was unenthusiastic, and almost the entire time he was home he radiated the impression of suppressing eye-rolls. He gave off the sense of not being real impressed with us as a family/household. As if he were making an effort to be as patient and tolerant and as good-natured as he could be, but that we were fairly inferior as families/households go, and he was finding a lot to silently (or sometimes not silently) criticize. (You can see how this could be all in my head: “gave off the sense,” “radiated the impression,” “silently criticize.” But I don’t think I’m wrong. I’ll ask him in a decade.) He disapproves of the way we handle the other kids. He disapproves of the amount of cleaning we do, or rather don’t do. He disapproves of our dishwasher’s effectiveness. He disapproves of how much stuff we have. (What’s it to him, if I might ask?) He was especially seeming-to-bite-his-tongue about Paul, and a couple of times made inappropriately rebuking remarks to Paul, or critical/complaining remarks to me about Paul. (I don’t know if he said similar things to Paul about me. I didn’t tell Paul that Rob said things about him, and Paul might similarly be sparing me.)
I remember reading (in a book about teenagers, when Rob was an earlier teenager going through a similar stage) that this kind of irritating/heartbreaking stuff is in fact considered crucially important if the child is going to be able to successfully separate from the parents and vice versa. Though (my mind answers back, apparently eager to cast off the full comfort of this assurance): there is a lot of variety in how kids go through this stage. Not everybody gets the disapproval and the suppressed eye-rolls—though of course many get far, far, far worse. I’m remembering our former neighbor who wrote a piece for the local paper to explain how despite being as good and careful a parent as she could be, and having a couple of children turn out very well, she had been bafflingly unable to control her teenaged daughter or even keep her in school or at home; that before this happened to her daughter/family, she’d thought such things indicated a serious parenting issue, and now she cringed to think of other people viewing her family this way.
I remember having my own mixed feelings about my family growing up—and I was widely considered to have a very good family and home life. I remember friends having very negative things to say about their families. Some of them had a lot of reasons to criticize; some didn’t, but still did. It was a common conversation topic in high school and then in college: What’s Wrong With My Parents.
Now my friends only occasionally talk about what’s wrong with their parents (still a fun topic, though); more often we talk about what’s wrong with our spouses/children. And so part of me is thinking this too shall pass etc., and that one day Rob will seem glad to be home and seem to want to spend time with us, instead of seeming like he’s deliberately avoiding us. But part of me is doing that thing where a parent can’t help but project the current stage all the way into the permanent future: What if she NEVER sleeps without me sitting in the room with her?? What if he NEVER stops needing a diaper at night?? What if she NEVER learns to eat more foods?? What if he NEVER learns to independently handle his schoolwork?? What if she ALWAYS goes mute when she’s upset?? What if he ALWAYS throws things when he loses his temper?? What if she ALWAYS dates terrible people?? What if he ALWAYS dislikes us and thinks we’re inferior parents running an inferior family/household?? I’m picturing him telling his future friends/spouse/kids all the ways he is avoiding being like us. And some people really never do come around to liking their families much or identifying with the way they live, and that has to be okay too.
But it was a little disheartening to feel the disapproval. And frankly kind of annoying. None of us are perfect parents, none of us run perfect households, all of us do some stuff the non-ideal way, all of us make regular mistakes. We all have limited resources to apply to the pursuit of The Highest and Best Way To Live—as well as having different ideas about what even IS The Highest and Best Way To Live. (And it is a LITTLE EARLY for him to think he has it figured out better than we do, considering he hasn’t even TRIED any of this stuff yet.) What we hope for, or at least what I hope for, is that if we do a reasonably decent human job of things, eventually the children will be adults who will understand the gist of it: that they will think, “Back then I felt my parents should have met these ideals or been better people in such-and-such a way, but now I see that everyone has their own ideals and their own strengths/weaknesses” and “My mom does things one way, and I do things a different way, but that doesn’t mean one way is RIGHT and the other is WRONG.” One hopes (I hope) that in the end, the grown children come to an understanding that everyone is just another imperfect person, including their parents, including themselves, including absolutely everyone they know—and so they will be easy on themselves, and on others, and ideally also on me.
I’m pretty sure I was this kid .My kids are still young but this is totally heading my way, and my mom is just gonna stand there, not blinking, and say: “Karma, kid. Karma.”
I think this is very much a “you can’t get it till you’ve been through it” kind of thing. Once he has his own household, family and responsibilities, it will put things into perspective.
I remember being Rob’s age and being so, so critical of my parents. I have definitely come around and I hope Rob will, too,
I will add that my brother, age 35, still makes fairly critical comments of the way we were raised. He says them only to me now, not our mom. And he still shows up not only for holidays but many other days in between and participates happily in family stuff. He’s gone above and beyond to be there during hard times. So maybe that will be Rob, too.
As frustrating as it is to be on the receiving end of this behavior, I think it’s fairly common for older teens/young adults to think they know EVERYTHING and their parents are IDIOTS. I can (cringingly) remember having those sorts of thoughts myself when I was a young adult, and of course I look back and realize I was the moron and my parents were saints for keeping their mouths shut. So “this too, shall pass,” and all that, although it’s not particularly helpful today to know that twenty years from now Rob will probably silently cringe when he remembers his attitude on visits home.
What might help is knowing you’re not alone. My younger daughter is 17 and you would think she has a PhD in Life and Everything About It, given how eye-rolly she is about pretty much everything. There are times when I’m tempted to say, “You know so much, you run this household, missy!” but I do not, because I’m ostensibly an adult and we’re not supposed to be petty toward our children. It’s so, so tempting though . . .
These are the times this quote of Mark Twain’s is useful, especially if we adjust the age range just a little to adjust for differences in current rates of the ages at which kids are expected to do certain adult things: “When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.”
I find myself whispering this in my own ear FREQUENTLY.
Also, I was reading my journals from when I was 20 years old recently (cringe). The things I said about my parents! The disapproval! The undercurrent of smug snideness! My disappointment in them and their staid and predictable habits! (And then on top of that, unexpressed in my journal, what I remember about that summer: MISSING THEM so badly and feeling SO HOMESICK and kind of unmoored since I wasn’t with them and following those habits anymore).
The reassuring part: reading them as a 47-year-old, I can see how inaccurate my assessment was, and how different it is from what I think them of them and their staid habits now, especially with 30 years of experience as the in law of another, much different (cough much less well adjusted cough) family.
OMG, my dad used to quote that bit to us as teenagers ALL THE TIME, and it drove us NUTS!!! And I still firmly believe that the things he said were ridiculous (and I validated this fact with other adults at the time), even 30 years later. What greatly improved our relationship was not any sort of realization that he was actually a wise, knowledgeable man and I hadn’t appreciated him in my teens, but rather an increase in my ability to let things go and not have to try to get him to understand why he was being ridiculous.
Love that quotation! It resonates strongly with me, too.
Ugh. Why are so many stages in childrearing so TIRESOME?
I am on the hopeful this-too-shall-pass side of things. I seem to remember being a Big Jerk when I was in college and thinking I knew it all. But now, with each new stage of parenting/adulthood, I am newly ASTOUNDED by how fantastic my parents were and how badly I treated them and how fair and reasonable and patient they were with me growing up. Rob will come around. He MUST.
I actually remember this happening when I moved out, and something important to remember is what my therapist recently told me, “teenagers are just now figuring out they don’t want to be their parents, and that is okay.”
I was annoyed at first, but then I took a hard look back at my childhood and realized I was the same, so it’s okay for my son to be the same.
When I lived at home it was all normal. When I moved out the first thing I realized was, I did not need all this STUFF. My mom collects a bunch of antiques and trinkets, and things I consider junk. Every time I go back to her house now, while it may be tidy, it’s cluttered with too much shit, and I don’t like it. Not to mention I look around and think “some day I’m going to responsible for dealing with all of this, and isn’t that just what I want after my mom has died, to deal with all of this mess.
Other things too, my mom “seemed” clean when I lived there. However when I moved out I realized I didn’t like her clean. She cleans everything with soap and water. She fills up the sink or bucket and uses that, and I find it disgusting. I want bleach, and antibacterial, and single use. No rinsing the towel in that nasty water. Now when I go over there I look at the counters as dirty. When she wipes down the table before dinner, I see germs swim all over. When she comes to MY house she thinks I’m too strict, and she thinks her method is better than my bleach, and no matter how many times I tell her to PLEASE PLEASE not help clean my kitchen after dinner (because she will do it wrong), she still tries to clean, it and then I have to clean it ALLLLL OVER.
She does laundry in a way that makes me insane (daily). We do laundry on sundays while we watch tv, fold it, and put it all away in one day.
There are things that I found much more efficient ways of doing, and watching my mom do it her way drives me crazy, but what makes me crazy is when she asks me to do it her way. I remember her and I having a full blown fight about how to vacuum. She wanted it just so, but my way was logically better. To date that may be the biggest fight we’ve ever had.
So it is reasonable, that after living on his own for a while, he’s discovered that maybe how you do things, isn’t how he wants to do things, and that’s okay. The judgment will pass when it’s not as fresh to him. Eventually he will become used to it. You have to get used to it too. Just because your way of doing things works for you, does not mean your kids will move out and want to be the same. Similarly, he may watch paul do some things, and think, “I would never do that, I don’t want to become that, I’m so frustrated by that.” Because he’s been on his own for a bit, and probably gotten a taste of what kind of person he doesn’t want to be.
My husbands mom hasn’t dusted in, I dunno at least the 17 years we’ve been together. As a result he never dusted and still doesn’t like it. Except I do dust, and pretty often, so now when we go home and he sees his moms 17 year old dust, he’s highly offended and totally grossed out.
Back to what I started with, it’s important to remember, at a certain age kids realize they don’t have to become their parents, and we have to give them the freedom to become whoever they should choose to become.
Well, this is pretty bad news. It does not sound AT ALL as if the judgment passed off with you and your mom, even when you were no longer young and you were a wife/mother/homeowner yourself. You call her soap-and-water cleaning habits “disgusting” “nasty” “dirty” “germs” and her tidily-kept possessions “junk” “mess” “too much shit.” You have not ended up concluding that doing things in morally-neutral different ways (such as daily laundry vs. weekly) is not a matter of right vs. wrong but just a matter of different preferences and different ways of doing things: it still drives you “insane”/”crazy” that your mom does it differently than you do. You see your way of doing things as “logically better” and the differences have led to “the biggest fight” you’ve ever had. The judgement has not passed off, even though it is no longer new to you; you have not become used to it; you are still using terrible words to describe her way of doing things to others. It’s like my worst paranoid parental fantasy come to life.
Haha this is what I thought reading this, too. Like, geez! (Also, there is a looooot of research out there about how a little dirt is good for our biome, and antibacterial is pretty much bad news. I would much rather clean my house with soap and water than bleach and Lysol.) Also, as someone who does laundry daily and would much prefer to do one quick load a day than spend my Sunday running load after load, well..idk. It doesn’t feel like you’ve come to the conclusion that different is okay, but rather that your way is the right way,
One of my worst parental nightmares, as the mother of all sons, is having a DIL who disparages me—stuff like getting the husband—my son—to feel “highly offended” and totally grossed out” visiting my home.
Swistle, if it helps, I WAS the ultimate snotty, eye rolling, irritable teen. It got slightly better when I went to school and realized that my home life had been pretty cushy and I actually missed them. However, it didn’t drastically improve until I was totally independent from them…married…became a parent myself. I truly and honestly look at my mom and dad completely differently now than I did when I was a dumb 18 year old…I have nothing but positive feelings and respect for them now. And I spend SO much time with them—because I want to! They’re two of my favorite people to hang out with….right up there with my siblings and their spouses! So, there is a lot of hope for those crabby college kids!
Y’all the fight over the vacuum, happened when I still lived there. We had an L shape couch. I was vacuuming in front, and then wanted to go to the left. Apparently my mom wanted me to go to the right. This resulted in her picking up the vacuum and throwing it across the room, and shouting at me for 25 minutes, throwing me into a wall, and then slapping me across the face for the first time ever. All, because I wanted to vacuum to the left. In my eyes, I was helping vacuum, I don’t think the direction mattered. Now, with my own kids if I ask them to help, and maybe it isn’t how I do it, I shut my mouth, because I would rather just have their help, then make them feel terrible about it, and have them not want to help again.
Both of our ways are right in our own house, but it doesn’t mean when I go to her house, which doesn’t feel like home, I’m not grossed out by what I see. I am ADHD and OCD, with high visualization. This means, that yes, when she uses her sink full of soapy water over and over I literally see germs. But it’s her house, so fine do it. But don’t come to my house and do it your way.
What people fail to realize is because I was afraid of being my own person, I just conformed to her person so I wouldn’t upset her. When I moved out, and realized I could be something else, it was freeing.
What interesting is my initial comment came from my therapist. That kids are realizing they don’t have to be their parents. Rather than slamming me for listing reasons I don’t want to be my mom, first understand that perhaps, my mom doesn’t recall my childhood like I do.
Her antiques are things that will not mean anything to me, as I never had any emotional attachment to them. Used colored jars, blue plates, 100 crystals, etc…to me it’s cluttered junk. My kindergarten home work, junk. I’ve tried to throw it away, and she fishes it out of the trash. I threw away a toaster once, and she found it in my trash and took it out.
However, my kids still go there every weekend, I work for my mom, we see each other all the time. But yes, I don’t agree with her household at all, and I’m so relieved to be able to have my own household that will never be anything like that.
My dude, no one is slamming you for not wanting to be your mom. What’s happening is that you’re taking your mother, whose cleaning habits you find nasty/disgusting and whose possessions you find shitty/junky, and who was apparently physically and verbally violent when you vacuumed a different direction than she preferred and who currently has severe boundary issues when it comes to your house, and you’re talking about that on a post where I am fretting anxiously that my child is judging me unfairly for my cleaning/possessions. Surely you can see why this isn’t going over well.
Yes. I understand. My hope was that it also made you step back and see it from his side. Because I cannot imagine how much better my relationship would have been, if my mom had just saw my side once (your sink water is making me want to vomit maybe don’t do it when I can see or something. I don’t know). I just…I try so hard now to make sure everyone else doesn’t accidentally do what she did, which is make me never ever come home.
It is unkind to compare abuse and clearly ongoing mental illness with a mother and son learning to stretch and grow in their new roles together as adult child and adult parent.
I guess, maybe you’re seeing it from a parents perspective rather than the kid. Imagine being the undiagnosed ADHD/OCD manic kid living in that house. Something always felt wrong, but I couldn’t do anything about it, nor could I place it because I didn’t know better, unless I went to friends. When I moved out, and then came back, it was as if everything that had been bothering me for 18 years was glowing neon.
RE: laundry. I go to work at 4am and get off at 6:30 pm and then make dinner and fit in a shower. I don’t have time for daily laundry, which my mother knows, and yet continually tells me I’m doing wrong. BUT, my husband and I catch up on all of our TV shows sunday, eat a great breakfast and lunch together, and fold laundry together. It’s time we spend together and I love it. Later in the day, the boys put their laundry in, and then they come watch a show while we fold theirs. It’s great. Currently we are watching The Good Doctor and SWAT on laundry day, each kid has a show they like to watch with us at laundry time. At my moms you hear her constantly complaining about always doing my dads laundry, about being a maid, cook, blah blah, blah. About how she had to get up at 5am to wash his pants. So yes, I definitely feel like my way works better. I lived in a house where if I did my laundry I got in trouble for not doing hers. If I didn’t do my laundry I got in trouble for doing none. If I did hers, I did it wrong. So you can imagine, like vacuuming I have some traumatic thoughts on laundry, and you can imagine that yes, my way sure seems better.
But I can promise you, at no point is my mom looking at this from my point of view. Only her hurt feelings point of view.
Again, do you see why this is not going over well? You are taking a situation about Rob and Swistle, and making it line up with the situation between you and your mom, and it is a very unflattering comparison. Then when anyone suggests it’s not comparable, you bring up more horrifying details about you and your mom, which makes it worse.
I am hoping that No Name is expecting to spend decades more in therapy, because DAMN.
Nope. My therapists and I realize we can’t changw my mom, we can just change me. And we have. I’ve become vastly different than the girl who moved out as soon as I turned 18. My mistake was thinking I could come here and share MY experiences when they didn’t align with the authors. I’ve always known this. I only have therapy now for my ADHD treatment.
Hey, Me: Your experience appears to be that your mother is objectively awful and that, perhaps as a result of that, you have never softened your own opinions about those parts of her parenting and lifestyle that are not awful but just uncomfortable for you.
Presumably your therapist has pointed out that different ways of wiping down counters are not awful in the way that abusive fights about the direction one vacuums the house are. Although I wonder whether, if it matters that much to your mom, she also has some degree of OCD, which could — to an outsider — be a point of connection/sympathy for you both, in an ideal world.
Swistle, I sort of assume that there will be some areas of discontent that persist throughout my kids’ lives, and some of them, I will have earned. I also believe in the foundations I’ve built with my kids, that they will outlast the flare ups of criticism and be strong enough to overcome the discontent. I believe in your foundations, too, based on everything you’ve written over the years. My kids are high school seniors and I’ve been reading up to prepare myself and to distract myself from the stress and arguments of the present, and so I have read many stories just like yours. I think the “everything was great, it was our perfect reunion holiday” stories are the exception, not the rule. And it’s not at all predictive of how things will be between you, five years from now.
I’ve always believed she has OCD, and AHDH. However she adamantly claims she does not. She also adamantly claimed I did not, because she didn’t want a defective child. I did not get an official diagnosis until I was in my 30s. After years of failing in school and getting shouted at, we discovered the reasons why I failed. Dyslexia, and AHDH. Now, I treat both and I’m thriving, and completing the school I left years ago.
So we will never be able to bond over that. I have tried. She dismisses it. She is fine. I’m dramatic, nothing is wrong she is perfect.
I am not sympathetic to her ways of parenting. I’ve heard stories of how she was raised. She has complained about it my whole life, and yet raised me just the same. I chose to walk away and raise my kids very different and I’ve alwsys harbored resentment that she was never willing to get help, and maybe change both of our lives.
Yes there are deep rooted issues here. Things I haven’t even touched on here because I don’t need to. But I’ll say this. When we went to group therapy after my birth dads death, she heard my problems and spent 10 years shouting at me for discussing them in therapy, NOT trying to fix her own short comings.
My therapist had said that being as OCD as I am she can understand how traumatic it is to visit a house that I think is covered in dirty water. The interesting thing is I have friends who have said when they go to their parents, they will wash a plate before using it, because they also realized maybe their parents aren’t as clean as they would like.
My in-laws know my nuances. My mom in law leaves a sponge soaking in dirty soap water for a week and washes all dishes with it. I could not handle that, and after years of washing her dishses secretly before using them, my husband spoke up, and my MIL just went out and got me some plastic forks, and paper plates for our twice yearly visits. Kind of solved everything.
It’s been years now and I’ve gotten over some of my stuff with the help of brain training. But I won’t get over the fact that my mom never just tried to find a way to make it comfortable for me to come home. Instead of throwing the forks and slamming dishes because I physically could not eat off them, she could have just grabbed me a plastic fork. She has them, and it would have been great.
Swistle I understand you’re a different kind of mom. But I also think blog comments should be a place where anyone can comment. For years I’ve just not commented because I KNOW my comments don’t line up with what you are looking for. However what’s always bothered me is perhaps someone else in your comments is like ME and wants to read through and find one comment that lets them say “me too.” All of these comments end positive. Mom and I commiserate now and things are great and we are all so happy and look back and laugh.
Expect for those of us that didn’t have that experience it may be nice for another commenter to read through and realize they aren’t alone, they aren’t lol happy endings, and some kids never go home again.
Absolutely everyone should comment with their own experiences, and they do. Where your comments tend to go awry is that you tend to tell part of the story in a way that makes it seem as if it applies in a scary way, and not come out with the rest of it until challenged. Your comment was essentially “Yes, I still judge my mother extremely harshly even now, and in fact it’s much worse than you feared.” When I reacted to that, THEN you added all the backstory, with the result that you seemed to be comparing an abusive situation to mine. If your comment had been “I still judge my mother extremely harshly even now, but that’s because of our particular situation,” that would have been fine and would have added to the conversation the way you intended.
I certainly don’t want to add fuel to what seems to be a disagreement on the appropriateness of your comments, No Name. However, I do want to say that I had an upbringing VERY similar to yours. From one internet stranger to another, I’m proud of you for getting help via therapy and building a happy home life that works for you as an adult.
That was, dear smart Swistle, exactly my fist shaking response as well. Only you took the time to give chapter and verse. Articulate wench indeed.
All of this resonates with me. I wonder if he’s feeling a bit more defensive because of the new house/loss of his old space? Hang in there!
I wonder that, too. He acts as if it’s no big deal—but I would have VERY MUCH found it a big deal if my parents had moved my sophomore year!!
My parents moved when I was a freshman in college, from the house I grew up in to a house that I had to call and get directions to. I’d never even seen it! It was very upsetting,
What a fantastic post. I remember being mostly miserable my first winter break at home from college. I honestly never did feel 100% comfortable again in my childhood home-on the plus side, a sign of a successful separation, but jarring I think for all involved.
I was insufferable the first Christmas I was home (and my college had a longer than normal winter break). My parents made me get a full time job (as in, as soon as I got home, my Dad told me I was working in his building for 40 hours a week), and that probably was the best decision. If I had been sitting at home for 6 weeks, my Mom probably would have murdered me.
I was annoyed by everyone. People wanting to know where I was and when/if I was coming home. Younger siblings who got into my stuff/had opinions/were being children but were annoying/etc. I reluctantly came home for Freshman and Sophomore year winter and summer breaks, and that was it. I wound up moving in my with boyfriend who dropped out of college, right before I turned 20. I haven’t lived with my parents/at their house since I was 19.
This really hit the nail on the head for me. My 19 year old daughter home from college for a month. Frequently pointing out issues with the house, what was in the fridge, how the dog wasn’t trained better. It was hard not to take this personally, especially since I have a special talent for taking every comment as bitter criticism, but, when she wasn’t complaining or disparaging my cleaning, she was cheerful and spent more time with us than I expected. I definitely remember being a pain to my mom, but really, once I had kids of my own, boy did I have an appreciation for what she did, what she endured. Thanks for talking about this.
Yes, yes, he also had opinions on how the cats were behaving / had been trained!!
weird, I commented without my name so my mom couldn’t search my commonly used handle, and that comment didn’t make it through, but all comments after mine did?
ugh, my mom searches me often with my usual name, and this is one comment I couldn’t have her find. Eek
I remember chafing at everything and now I think that it was just hard to leave my fledgling life and get back in the family groove. I always had a sense of excitement that anything could happen on campus, while home had a predictable rhythm that was not of my choice. It was hard not to feel like I was missing out (although on what, exactly, with campus shut down? Kids are crazy.).
I only have toddlers so obviously no actual experience parenting teens/young adults but I think that the developmental “work” of toddlers and young adults are similar- separating from parents and developing their sense of self. The way that tends to happen is difiance and rejection of the parent.
I don’t know if it’s helpful to think of this as a similar phase- sure some kids never grow out of the phase and continue to tantrum but the vast majority return to sanity.
I know I was a god awful young adult on my first couple trips home from college- and am close to and only a regular amount annoyed by my family now.
I have apologized to my mother MANY MANY times for ever being a teen-aged daughter. I was smug, insufferable, and snotty. And she was stupid and uneducated and hopeless. Mercifully, she didn’t smother me in my sleep, and I grew out of that awful phase (though I still regret and feel guilty about it). Rob is stretching his wings, but hasn’t learned to fly with them yet. You did a good job; he’ll come around (if you don’t smother him in his sleep). xo
Oh my gosh, me too. Once I said something along the lines of “I don’t respect you or your choices” to my Mom, and she basically rejected the premise on the spot. I can’t remember the details, but she did not roll over and cry but provided evidence that I do respect her as my mother. And then years later, when I cringingly apologized, she didn’t remember it at all. I find that comforting. Like her brain just rejected my nonsense.
Hi Swistle,
I’m not at all trying to invalidate how criticised and defensive and eyerolly you feel. I am a parent of an 18 y.o. and a 13 y.o. (and a blissfully oblivious 9 y.o.), and I was once a teenager returning to my parents’ house, and I understand that from both sides.
However, on the other side of the fence, I think it’s great that you’re raising a kid who’s learning / developing his own sense of self. His own sense of what he likes and doesn’t like. To begin with, of course it’ll be more binary. He knows how you guys live, and he knows a tiny bit of other stuff. How you live has been background noise, has been ur-parenting, for so long. It’s just The Way Things Happen, when you’re a kid. He’s only beginning to examine it now and that really takes a long time / forever. Of course he’s going to push back against you. Everything you do is wrong or could EASILY be done better.
As he grows he’ll get more nuanced, and he’ll have more of those moments where he looks at something in another household and thinks “why don’t you do it like my parents, that’s the normal way to do it and it makes sense”. He’ll begin to understand that he likes some of what you do, and wants to do other things differently, and that doesn’t have to be a big deal. He will begin to understand that he has his own identity apart from being your kid, and so he doesn’t have to push back against being your kid every time he wants to do something a bit differently.
I think it’s great that he’s going through this, and that you’ve raised a strong kid who can examine this stuff.
(I also completely understand wanting to throttle him at times. Isn’t it a pity that teenagers don’t have that incredible cuteness evolutionary self-defence mechanism that babies have.)
(Also as others have mentioned, there’s the whole deal of being basically independent (ha ha ha well, kind of) and coming home to doing things Your Way again, even when Your Way is demonstrably hardly the worst thing in the world! It’s a weird difficult time, as you know. Figuring out how to be independent and also a kid. He’ll get over that, too, which will be good!)
This is a much nicer spin than I’ve been putting on it, and I am going to try to see it this way!
Best of luck!!!
I’d say “we’re rooting for you” but “rooting” has a different meaning here in Australia.
Yes, this take on it makes a lot of sense. I think if you feel pulled to “do something” about it, all you can really do is remind your teenager that these comments are neither kind, nor necessary (you’re not actually going to change the way you do things around the house).
It’s a sign of growing up that he’s noticing these things now, but he needs to keep them in his head, not say them out loud. “Wow, that kind of hurt my feelings!” “When you have your own place one day, you can do it that way and see how it goes. I’ve always done it this way and it’s what I’m comfortable with / good at.” “Hmm, that’s an interesting suggestion. I hadn’t thought of that before now. You want to take care of that for me while you’re home?” :)
I really like this (KB’s) take on things! Those seem like great responses to sock away for when I wouldn’t be able to think of them fast enough on my own one day! My daughter becomes a teenager on Thursday, and while she’s still an absolute delight, it seems like a good set of phrases to have in one’s back pocket in case she becomes not so delightful in the future. Or even if she remains as she is, I could easily see my 10-year-old son becoming a surly teenager at some point.
I agree with letting him know his words are hurtful. He probably has no idea that he is hurting your feelings and you’d be doing him a favour to gently bring that to his attention. What he really needs to do is rent somewhere with flatmates if he wants a lesson in how differently people do things. I remember, in my judgemental late teens and twenties thinking “your mother has failed” about flatmates who were inconsiderate and incompetent at basic life skills. To avoid anyone making the same judgements about me, I’ve made it my parenting philosophy to make sure my kids have the skills to be a good flatmate and to understand that living successfully with other adults requires being considerate and tolerant in equal measure.
I can understand this in so many ways. I couldn’t wait to leave for college but now realize I was way, way too critical of my parents. I don’t know when it happened but eventually I stopped judging them. One of my big fears is what if my kids just don’t like me? What if our personalities don’t mesh and they don’t want to spend time with me? What then? This parenting thing is just so bizarre. Sometimes bittersweet doesn’t even scratch the surface.
YES. I think a lot of it boils down to just exactly this fear: what if my child doesn’t LIKE me??
I do not know if this applies, but: people often like the people who like them.
If you get to know who they are (which unfortunately requires continued getting-to-know because they will probably keep changing quite a lot for a while, yes?) and find aspects about them that you can like as they are growing into being separate adults, and communicate what you like about them to them, then it seems like odds probably improve?
Well this post compelled me to run to my treasured volume of “Farmer’s Boy”, book three of the Laura Ingalls Wilder series and page through until I found this passage after teenaged Eliza Jane returned from Academy.
“Eliza Jane was more bossy than ever. She said Almanzo’s boots made too much noise. She even told Mother that she was mortified because Father drank tea from his saucer.
‘My land! how else would he cool it?’ Mother asked.
‘It isn’t the style to drink out of saucers any more,’ Eliza Jane said. ‘Nice people drink out of the cup.’
‘Eliza Jane!’ Alice cried. ‘Be ashamed! I guess Father’s as nice as anybody!’ (296).
I find much comfort in this.
**”Farmer Boy”
Oh! Eliza Jane! I had forgotten this scene! That IS comforting!
I don’t remember being this way when I came back from college, but I think it was because I felt like I had to be as agreeable as possible in order to access whatever shred of acceptance and belonging was available from my emotionally neglectful/occasionally emotionally abusive parents. So the fact that Rob feels comfortable enough to push back against you and your way of life in this totally healthy, developmentally appropriate way seems like a good sign for him and a good sign for the parent/child relationships. Even though going through it sounds stressful and unpleasant.
I also wonder if he felt unsettled and unhappy about the move on some level, even if he wasn’t totally aware of it. I could see where it would be disorienting to return to your childhood roots (i.e., familiar family structure) but in a completely unfamiliar place.
I wonder about this too. He acted like he didn’t care, but how could he NOT care? It was the only home he remembered, and we moved while he was gone!!
And I feel reassured by your take on disagreeable = comfortable!
Squirrel Bait-I just posted a comment before I saw yours-but I absolutely agree with what you said. The fact he feels comfortable enough to be kind of a pain-says a lot how lucky his childhood has been. He isn’t walking on eggshells, and even though as a parent, it it not fun-he feels safe enough to do that. Anyone who has had an unstable childhood realizes what a luxury that must be, it is really hard to describe unless you have gone through it.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that Paul and Swistle have given him the foundation to question, and even though it is tough, it’s a gift you have given him.
That’s what I’m clinging to with my pre-teen, who has always been…. rather argumentative. “She feels safe and knows she’s loved, here comes another tirade, but at least she feels safe.”
I would be a great one to have the what’s wrong with my parents chat (still a fun topic even though now it is more of the what’s wrong with my husband and my kids – so true!). My folks have always played favorites and being the middle child who was/is often glossed over, I still struggle with the way they treat us/me. I was probably a snot senior year in high school, but ended up appreciating my time at home.
I too have a college kid who came home for Christmas. Laddie is a junior and goes to school far from home. He hadn’t been home since August. He frustrated me in the typical ways – being inconsiderate when he was expected to be home with the car because Ed needed to be at practice on time, leaving a trial of food/wrappers, keeping late hours, being underwhelmed by meals I prepared. I think this break was better than most. 1. Our expectations were quite low. We all cringe when he comes home. And I brace myself for him to sleep until noon and then wonder what car he can use so that he can go workout for a few hours! 2. he has missed us more than usual. He notices how the younger 5 siblings are growing up. He wanted to spend time with them and he attended as many of their b-ball games over break as he could.
It also helps that his next younger brother Ed is a senior in high school, but is very mature and is very much appreciative of us and would never bash us. Lad would not have a leg to stand on if he tried to roll eyes and be negative.
I think absence makes the heart grow fonder, and for now Rob is thinking he knows how to do it better, but he will come around. His way might end up doing things different than you, but he will appreciate all of you in the end.
I’ll never forget when my daughter came home after her 1st year of college. We had always gotten along so well, she was so easy going and we had a lot of interests in common. The first month of that summer was horrible! She seemed so different from the person I had known, and oh-the attitude! I think it was harder because I had missed her so very much, and I was so excited for her to be home for longer stretch of time. It seemed like she hated being home, and I will admit-I felt devastated.
My own experience at that age included drama, divorce, remarriage of parents-after I left for college, I had no real home to go home to. I really didn’t understand where she was coming from. I guess for me, I would have loved to have that stable home to come back to, but for her-she had that taste of independence, so it was difficult for her to be home. Even though we weren’t crazy strict, we expected her to clean up after herself, things like that. Then I had a bit of an epiphany-she wasn’t reacting like I would have in that situation, and that was actually a good thing. It meant she hadn’t had to live through the drama that I did!
Anyway-I can say 7 years later, she is an absolute joy when she comes home to visit. Loving, funny, so happy to be spending time at home for a little while. You’ve talked about it before, like when you think a child will never be potty trained, or sleep through the night. This too shall pass, and you’ll look back and smile about this.
I was wondering about this, because my firstborn was an easy kid to raise and his two trips home so far have been great. I have a sense that Rob has been deeply aware of Swistle’s and Paul’s shortcomings for some time and never shy about demonstrating that he is totes insightful. So I thought maybe it had to do with getting back the version of your kid you found most annoying because he’s had several months savoring Life without Style-Cramping Parental Idiocy.
I guess not.
Swistle, FWIW, I was a nightmare of a teenager and I got better. But dealing with my parents’ nonsense when I was home from college was hard on all of us. And yet eventually I got over it, and we all learned to get along.
That said, my parents — especially my mom — is convinced her way is the best, and while I share that in many ways, I have made an effort to shrug and let other people do things there way. (Except for the way my mother spends her days observing and judging — I can’t seem to shrug and just let her have that as her main form of recreation.)
*their* way
I remember it feeling chafing, like putting on clothes that were a smidge too tight, to be home. You adapt so easily to all the freedom – choosing what to eat & when, no one asking you your plans, no curfew, etc – and then to come back home where you’re not quite a child but not quite an adult and it is constricting and all the things you used to be accustomed to are now jarring and different because you’re accustomed to something different.
I’ve had far more talks with my mom as an adult where I have either apologized or commiserated with her about various things that I did/didn’t do when I lived at home and now that I live with my own husband and two kids, karma is coming around in full force. I may not care for her style, or she mine, but it’s more in the vein of gentle teasing than a YOU’RE WRONG permanent disagreement. We’re along the lines of city mouse & country mouse; neither wrong, just different and appealing in different ways for different reasons. But that doesn’t change that I’m happy to see her or to get caught up talking to her about anything and everything for a few hours on the phone.
I agree with the other commenters that it’s just another shitty phase of parenting, and eventually it’ll pass.
Thank you for writing about this <3 I come from one of those unpleasant childhood homes I never went back to during (only Freshman year Christmas break) or after college, but it’s so comforting to read about what’s normal and what to expect when my kids go away. I certainly hope they’ll want to come back, even if they are insufferable and eye-rolly.
I feel like I am looking into the not too distant future and sighing. I agree with the posters who said, as much as this sucks, it’s actually a credit to you that he felt safe to be smug. God knows it doesn’t make it easier. But it may be a comfort.
Well, if behavior in early adolescence is a preview, I won’t have to go through this until my second child, but that one will be a doozy. That one has a strong (if inconsistent) need to separate.
I do remember not wanting to come home when I was in college, too. It wasn’t because of my family– I wasn’t judging them and I still loved them. I just really liked my life at college and it didn’t feel like there was much left for me at home (not many friends around and a lot of negative memories from high school). I never came home for summer after the first one, and I skipped every Thanksgiving and at least one spring break. Christmas was pretty much the only time I was guaranteed to come home. I recently asked my mom if that was hard for her and she said yes, so I feel bad about it now.
My mom and I lived far away from each other starting when I went to college, so we never saw each other except for extended visits of a week or more when I came to her house. It wasn’t great, because we would fall back into the old dynamic of her acting like a mom and telling me (and my husband) what to do: how to do laundry, how much to eat, etc. It was extremely annoying and I never really got past the judgement of my teenage years.
She recently moved to the same city as my brother and me, and she and I are starting to develop a relationship as adults (I’m 47, it’s about time). There are still many, many things about her that annoy me, but I’ve been more able to let go of that and appreciate her and recognize her as a flawed human, just like the rest of us. I don’t think you have to live in the same city as your kid to do this – that’s just how it worked for us. I was also insufferable as a teenager but things are better now.
I think for some of the more extreme comments on this post, there are underlying issues beyond normal teenager-pulling-away stuff. I mean, if vacuums are being thrown, there are problems in that relationship. If you’re avoiding that kind of stuff, you’re doing all right and there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure. My mom and I have lunch every week now, because even though she can drive me crazy, I *want* have to have a better relationship with her and want to actively work on it. Take heart, Swistle. If there is hope for me and my mom, there is hope for you and Rob!
For me, the part of your post that resonated most was the part where you acknowledged that every phase feels like it’s never going to go away. This is so true! The best parenting advice I ever got was that every family should have written in gold over every door, THIS TOO SHALL PASS. The good and the bad. The baby snuggles and the tantrums, the hand-holding and the potty training.
So this too shall pass. It’s just as developmental as the rest. Rob’s brain isn’t done developing, not until he’s about 25 years old, and the know-it-allness is a (not-awesome) part of that. Your family is full of love and welcome, and although he needs to differentiate from it (and he will), that won’t mean disliking it and judging it. It will just mean… being different, which you’ll love, just as you loved him for the totally different person he’s been all these years.
I am in my 40s and having grown up, bought a house, gotten married, and had kids of my own, I actually feel very qualified to say that my parents are fine people but were not really good parents. When I was a kid and a teenager I didn’t really appreciate how bad they were, actually, as I just didn’t know any differently. That in no way stops me from being a very devoted daughter, and I see them both often (they’re no longer together), indulge their quirks, help them out when they need it, and go out of my way to be there for them during times of difficulty – especially now that they’re getting older and they’re getting a bit frailer and my mom is having health issues. We’re all flawed – my parents’ flaws are forgivable and not worth losing our good relationship over.
So take heart – even if Rob might not grow out of judging you guys, that doesn’t mean he will necessarily act as exasperatingly as he does now.
I’m a little afraid to wade in after the comment storm above, but I will say this… I’m probably exactly halfway between having been that teen and having that teen. And the only comment of yours I disagreed with was what right did he have with respect to how much stuff you have. And he does have some right to speak to that at some point because at some point it will be his problem to deal with. I have no idea if it’s legitimately a problem at this point or not, but for a LOT of people, it is a BIG problem.
Eventually, sure, he could consider our stuff his potential future problem, but that’s not his current angle. He’s not saying “Ug, I might have to deal with this someday!,” he’s saying “Ug, why do you have SO MANY PANS??”—looking at the half-dozen pans I use constantly.
Change of subject. I’ve been watching Tidying up with Marie Kondo, and making lists of things to do when I get off work. I know you like to watch shows while you do things around the house. I cannot recommend this show enough, especially while moving and unpacking. I cannot wait to tackle my garage this weekend while my husband is gone.
This is where swedish death cleaning comes in. I don’t think you have reached swedish death cleaning age yet, Swistle. I grant you permission to own more than half a dozen pans. Go out and buy a full dozen more.
(And he doesn’t even know about my soup pot, stored in a less-accessible cupboard! And my butter-pot, which is in a drawer!)
“Dammit, Rob, this pot SPARKS JOY for me! Step off!”
:) I’m quite good at comeback lines
…for other people
…24-48 hours after the event in question
…in the safety of your blog
I think Rob needs to feel free to THINK these things and feel free to NOT SAY THEM OUT LOUD. That is an essential part of being a grown up with judginess privilege. If you can’t keep your unkind thoughts about harmless stuff in your head, you aren’t acting your age.
My 16 year old is having issues speaking respectfully when he disagrees with us, and I’ve been trying to model speaking respectfully to him when I disagree with him. One item in particular that I can see will be an issue when we get to the “coming home for the holidays” phase is doing it our way because it’s our house that we live in year-round. My mom tells the story of my grandmother coming to help out after I was born and not being able to find where grandma put things away in the kitchen FOR MONTHS.
I remember going through it with my mom, and it was realizing that I felt irritated with everything she did that I would do differently because I was imagining be ABLE to do it differently.
Frankly, now that I’m an adult with a kid of my own, I like her way of doing it better. Mostly because her way involves a cleaning woman.
Oh man, it could be worse. My first Christmas in college I flew to California with my boyfriend (who I started dating in October) and went to Disneyland instead of going home.
I mean, we’ve been married almost 10 years now and are expecting baby #4, but I can’t believe I did that! My poor parents!!
I also remember that once I got my own apartment and was ABLE to set up a living space exactly how I wanted, it was much easier to tolerate my parent’s house and their way of doing things. There was a lot of eye-rolling before that though. I mean, who needs to fold all the blankets on the couch EVERY night?? Or clean the toaster crumbs out after every use?? Or mow the lawn every weekend regardless of whether it grew or not?? So much wasted time and effort! LOL.
Of course, my kids are still in the “Will she ever drink anything besides Chocolate milk for the rest of her life?” and “Will he throw himself on the floor and cry if his batman underwear are in the hamper as a grown man?” stages right now.
This reminds me of my cousin, who came back to her hometown for Christmas one year and stayed the ENTIRE TIME with her next door neighbor, and did not go see or call my aunt (her mom) once. NOT ONCE. For SEVERAL WEEKS. When she was NEXT DOOR the WHOLE TIME.
She has since apologized to her mom for being a terrible person. Perhaps a good blog post could be “terrible things I or someone I know did as a teen,” making Rob look like an angel in comparison and making Swistle feel better about the situation.
He has friends and a life and being home for the holidays seems like such an inconvenience- putting life on hold for a month, basically. I’m sure being there while you’re in the throes of moving doesn’t help- it’s this big thing, but he’ s not really a part of it so why get invested in the process?
He’ll get over it.
Speaking as a 20-something who now volunteers to go to the grocery store with my mom when I’m home for a few days just to ride around in the car and hang out.
Okay, I cringed so hard reading this because I’m sure I was 110% like Rob during my first year or two coming back home from college.
But all’s well that end’s well. All of those snooty feelings (which were ignorant and arrogant on my part) dissipated. I ended up transferring to a college back in my home city for my final two years and lived at home. And after I got married and had a baby, we ended up combining households with my mother—permanently. So I am 31 and living with my mother, and it’s great. She helps with our baby, we share household chores, I try to curb my tongue when the wisps of Judgmental Teen Me threaten to emerge from the depths. We wouldn’t change a thing.
There’s hope!
Oh, man…I think I was a bit of a Rob back in my early 20s. And now I am a fervent fan and supporter of my Mom. And we have different styles of housekeeping but I like and love her and I like visiting her home. And I have no idea why I felt fenced in when I visited her back in my college days. A lot of the comments above mention normal, healthy separation, and that makes sense to me! But, also, it is okay to tell Rob to stuff it occasionally. I mean, you’re like making MEALS for him, providing a crash pad for FREE. If it’s so awful, buy your own house!!! My mom and dad both stepped on me when my attitude got a little too hot. I totally deserved it.
ALSO! The minimalism thing is so popular with young MEN but duuuude…young men don’t raise families in their pristine mini-houses. Generally speaking. All with become clear to him in time, probably ;)
Ah I still remember that feeling of coming home from my first term (and full year for that matter) at university and feeling a really weird combo of claustrophobia and feeling left out that they were managing perfectly fine without me! Every tiny thing they did irritated me, and yet I still wanted to be able to slot back in as though nothing had ever changed.
In Rob’s case of course, a lot has changed, at least in terms of physical environment – and that has to play a factor I would think? But what I suspect it really comes down to is the invincible moral superiority of the late teens, which is enhanced by that first taste of independent living. He will eventually realise that he lives in a nice college bubble with minimal responsibility and he, in fact, does not know EVERYTHING there is to know about life, family or the best way to set up a kitchen quite yet. But life will probably have to rub his face in it a few times for that to sink in.
I’m a mum now. And while I still think my mother is the most irritating human being alive, well that’s kind of because she is. She’s unfortunately just really narcissistic and unsupportive, doesn’t have a great grip on her temper and is liable to throw massive toddler-style temper tantrums with zero notice. Having said all that, I do appreciate more fully now how hard she worked to raise us with my dad providing minimal support on the home front. I think she did the best she could, she just probably, objectively, was not a great personality fit for parenting. I’m pretty sure you, Swistle, are not my mum. So I think it’s safe to assume that while you and Rob will probably rub each other up the wrong way at various points in the future, as he matures he’ll start to realise what a great deal he really had/has with his family.
I can’t add anything the the conversation about Rob, although I agree he will almost certainly grow out of being an obnoxious teenager. I wanted to say something maybe comforting about all the other parents on social media taking bout their darling babies though. It reminded me strongly of the lovey-dovey FB and IG couples – you know, the ones with “the best husband ever OMG!” You know, the same ones who much too often, from what I’ve seen, break up or divorce shockingly soon after those posts? I guess I was just thinking that when there are some issues going on, sometimes it’s human nature to put our best faces on and try to get some “likes” to make ourselves feel better, even subconsciously. I’d be AMAZED if many of those parents who on social media are loving seeing their darling babies’ faces every morning, weren’t secretly metaphorically wishing they could “divorce” their snotty kids.
I’m sure that I was like this when I returned from college, mainly because I know I was like that even before I left. I was absolutely fed up with my mother and being at home– not because my mother’s ways were wrong or because I didn’t love her, but because I just wanted to do my own thing without her plans and stress and timing that didn’t match my own. When you’re ready to run your life your way or have already started, it’s aggravating to have a parent who’s imposing stuff on you.
For me, what actually made the biggest difference was when my mother started taking antidepressants in my mid-20s. She didn’t change how she did things herself, but the fact that I did things differently stopped bothering her as much. The fact that she relaxed towards me made it easier for me to relax towards her.
You may not be in her situation and may not need antidepressants (based on the change, I think my mother should have been on them a lot sooner), but I’d say that probably the best thing you can do for yourself try to find a way to get that kind of relaxation, too. Maybe cut the things you want him to do back to the bare minimum, try to find categories of stuff he’s doing to choose not to be bothered by.
…and if none of that helps, then look forward to the time when his visits are shorter and more about him just being around for a bit, rather than him being there for so long that you’re expecting him to be part of the household. I quit coming home for summers after my sophomore year and only came back for a week during winter break my senior year. Smaller doses may be easier for all of you.
I had to laugh when I read Rob is criticizing the number of pans you own , how the cats have been trained, and how his siblings should be raised. I was that person at 20 … I knew everything about the RIGHT WAY things should be done from cooking, to caring for pets , to raising children. Of course, I could only discuss that among my friends and with my parents – not to the neighbor at church or the mother I saw in the mall, etc.
And then I grew up and had pets and kids and life responsibilities and I began to understand why others do things the way the do. More importantly, as long as everybody is safe, thriving and relatively happy, the parents are doing things well enough.
As for your kids liking you, Swistle, that depends on so many things but based on everything I have read here, I think there is an excellent chance that most of them will like you well enough to want to spend time with you.
I was also thinking of “no Name Today”s posts. They are kind of like when a pregnant woman confides to a group for friends her fear of giving birth and some respond with stories about how awful their own labor and deliveries were. This is not going to help the fearful mom-to-be though others may be glad to hear they aren’t the ones who went through hell.
Mostly the posts make me grateful for my Mom. She was far from perfect and often drove me crazy but I did not have an abusive childhood where my own feelings were denied. I just finished reading “Educated” by Tara Westover. I highly recommend this memoir as it I couldn’t put it down and have stayed up way too late this week reading it. I have such a great appreciation of my parents today just have never purposefully putting me in harms way. (Also, it is great to read about a woman who seeks higher education and understanding against all odds.)
Ugh this is SUCH a wretched stage. I’m in my 30s with a household of my own but I have siblings Rob’s age. And now, watching them with our parents, I remember how I just couldn’t hold space for my parents in my 20s the way that I can now. This too shall pass.
OK, have to add my own comment to the 83 comments above. Kids (23 and 21) were both home for a week at xmas for the first time in 2 years. Generally delightful time. But the 21 year old had to constantly remind me, whether by facial expression, gesture, or exaggerated sigh, that I am The Most Singularly Un-Woke Human Being who ever walked on this planet. A few days ago I lamented on the phone to my mom….”Honestly, it was a bit like bullying. I mean, if I had a girlfriend who treated me this way, I’d stop hanging out with her, because, like who needs this???”
Long pause from my mother. Then: “Yeah. I remember the feeling.”
Ouch. (Note: a) she had every right to say that, boy was I obnoxious at that age…. and b) She was gracious enough to remind me that she and I had gotten past this and that my son and I would too.)
I love that you write things like this, so I can tuck it in the back of my mind when my kids are older. My oldest is currently in 8th grade. I recently apologised to my Mum for being a “moody cow as a teenager” since I now have my own moody teen daughter. It was funny as my Mum didn’t try to tell me “Oh no, you weren’t a moody cow.” She just said she loved me then and now and it was all ok. I’m wondering if she secretly thinks it’s funny that I now have payback in the form on my own daughter! ;)
I do hope that this is just a phase and not a forever thing.