Paul and I are not getting along very well recently, though I hope a recent conversation will help improve things. One of the main issues, for me, is that he’s giving me the “Well, did you make sure it’s plugged in?” tech-support type answer to EVERYTHING I SAY. It’s as if his working assumption is that I’m really stupid, and that I would mention a problem to him before giving it even a moment’s consideration. We have been together for over 20 years, and he already knows that my IQ is a couple of points higher than his, so I don’t know where this is coming from but I sure don’t like it.
He is also doing that thing, that really aggravating thing where I bring up an issue I’ve thought of or an idea I’ve had, and he says “Yeah, I thought of that.” Oh really. You thought of that. Isn’t it interesting how you didn’t mention it before. Isn’t it interesting that I somehow NEVER HAVE A SINGLE THOUGHT OR IDEA that you have not already had. It’s incredible, really. Literally incredible.
I don’t want to call any of this “mansplaining,” because that term is funny but it makes me feel not-right, and because I’ve dealt with so many women who do this. A former boss comes to mind, one who would say, “Oh, it’s so CUTE the way you guys can never figure out the paper towel dispenser! Ha ha!”—when we’d already told her it wasn’t that we couldn’t figure it out, it was that we had reasons not to use it that way. A former co-volunteer comes to mind: on her first day, she tried to explain to me how things worked, when I’d been there over a year. And various commenters in various comments sections come to mind; I know for a fact I’ve accidentally done it myself in other people’s comments sections, when I have a GREAT IDEA that of course they would have thought of themselves in the first ten seconds of considering the issue.
I’d thought that if I responded patiently but with some irritation each time, he would work things out for himself: he would think, “Hm, every time she calls my tech support line, it turns out she has already tried ALL of the first ten things we’re supposed to start with, so maybe I should assume NEXT time that I don’t need to start with those.” I’d tried spelling it out: “No, I’m bringing it up because I’ve tried all the easy fixes and none of them worked.” I tried making light of it: “Oh, you already thought of that? Too bad you didn’t mention it, then, because now I get the credit!” I tried impatient irritation: “Pfff, PLEASE. YES, of COURSE I thought of that, and also I made sure it was plugged in and turned on!”
But no: it has continued. He’ll even interrupt me when I’m listing what I’ve already tried, to suggest one of the things I was about to tell him I’d already tried. So yesterday I had to say, right after he’d done it yet again, that he was doing that a lot lately, and it was making me feel as if his working assumption was that I was really stupid. He acted not only chastened but surprised and affectionate (“Oh! Swistle, no!”), so there is some slim hope that I am only yoked to an oblivious idiot and not to an incurable pinehole.
It’s possible that this is just a dumb habit he’s fallen into, and that he can correct it by realizing it. My fear is that this is because HIS areas of smartness are the ones that Look Really Smart, such as physics and math and chemistry and logic puzzles, and that my lower ability/interest in those areas have led him to consider himself much smarter than me. When he is NOT. It’s just that he doesn’t consider HIS areas of low ability (people, relationships, writing, etiquette, unspoken communication, implications, anxiety about hypothetical situations) to be areas of smartness. I don’t want to have to keep REMINDING him that I’m smart in other ways, because then it’s like it’s just an act he’s keeping up for my sake: “Yes, dear, you are smart TOO, in your OWN way! Why, I would never have known how to get the laundry so sparkling white!” I want him to really BELIEVE it and KNOW it. But I am feeling some despair, because it seems like after twenty years he ought to know already.
I HATE it when I intensely dislike my husband. This past weekend, I was sick with the worst cold known to humanity (so nothing serious but miserable none-the-less), and I was getting irritated at the general state of entropy the house was falling into as I viewed it from my snuggly perch on the couch. But I was even more irritated that LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE (looking at you Other Adult) in the house even THOUGHT to pick up or straighten up or anything. And when I mentioned it, The Man looked at me with wide, scared eyes and said, “I’d have been happy to pick up if you had SAID SOMETHING!” and it may have just been the mucous overtaking my reason but I got teary-eyed having to explain that I shouldn’t have had to mention it! We’ve been together for almost 20 years! The house needs to be cleaned! This isn’t a NEW THING! I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOULD THINK OF THESE THINGS. /rant
I am with you and g. I am not a fan of those periods of intense dislike. I currently am enjoying my husband’s company but he was out of town last week for work so… it could be that. My husband’s (recent) favorite way to make me want to murder him is to tell me I make poor parenting decisions. – And my blood pressure just shot up –
We are the parents of 3 teens and one 20 y/o. They have made it this far. No one has flunked out of school or ended up in jail yet. I think I am doing ok.
g~ yes yes yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Am I the only one who can look around and SEE everything that needs to be done? Or the only one who can look at a clock and declare it’s bedtime???????? And Swistle, I believe that’s a Man-Code of some sort, as my husband does the same VERY VERY annoying thing.
Count me in on this one too! Do people not notice the gross mess our house is becoming???
I have to admit though, this line of thought is more often directed at my kids. My husband? Less often because he’s not a huge fan of clutter build-up on the main floor. It’s usually more for specific things like “doesn’t he realize I’ve been the one to clean the kitchen sink the last three times in a row and it’s his turn?”
And then I feel even worse when he takes the initiative and tidies things away… in the WRONG PLACE! I can’t FIND ANYTHING after my husband cleans! And if I complain, it’s just a reason for him not to clean. And I feel bad for getting frustrated because I want him to clean, and I don’t want to discourage him from doing so, but I want him to do it the same way I would do it, and maybe I should just learn to be grateful he’s doing it at all, and then I realize we missed paying a bill because he filed my “to be actioned” papers without, you know, actioning them first, and aaauughh!
I’m in the same boat too! I’ve had to realize that all my internal “rules” for the way things should be done around the house aren’t necessarily the way it makes sense for my husband to do them. I still get really irritated though when I can’t find anything after he cleans! Sometimes I do actually tell him to just stop and let me do it. I don’t think that’s entirely healthy either though, since doing all the things leads to some resentment on my part so…yeah. It’s an ongoing struggle.
The hilarious part though is that when we have my parents over for holiday meals and such, my dad always asks me where things go when he helps clean up since he knows I have these rules. I think I get it from him since he has always asked me that since I got married.
With regard to your relationship with Paul, have you tried . . . . . I’m just kidding. I have no answers or easy solutions, and I’ve been married a long time myself. Sometimes marriage is fun, and sometimes it’s a long slog through a smelly swamp, and sometimes it’s both in the span of a day.
You know. Sometimes you make a kind comment like this on a blog, and you might not give it another thought. So I have to say: I really, REALLY needed to read this today.
REALLY REALLY.
I hope you have a great day because you just made mine better.
Aww! I hope your today is better than your yesterday. :)
“Sometimes marriage is fun, and sometimes it’s a long slog through a smelly swamp, and sometimes it’s both in the span of a day.”
OH MY GOSH! That is the most true and comforting statement ever, and I’d love to have it embroidered on a pillow (or put on a magnet to join Swistle’s “Drop in the Bucket” theory on my fridge!) ;)
My husband is a pastor, and I’m thinking of having him include that line when he does weddings. I think it’s an apt description. :)
You, LeighTX, are both funny and wise. I hope Swistle enjoyed your comment as much as I did. :)
:)
I hate this feeling so very much! We’ve been going through this time where he has had to work and travel a lot. I’ve tried to be good natured about it. But he is doing literally nothing around the house and not much with the kids and he wants an appreciation parade for any effort.
I feel like the maid. And also as though he thinks I am stupid because he is starting to believe his career is obviously more important and valuable than mine (to him).
These periods have always resolved before so I am hopeful they will again but it is unsettling to feel this way.
Ugh. My husband has been doing something kind of similar lately, but seemingly dismissing my feelings with a “pfft” that makes it seem that he feels I’m overreacting and LET ME TELL YOU. There is no quicker way to ACTUALLY make me overreact than to PFFT me. *ahem*
Anyway. Ugh. Sorry Paul is being inconsiderate.
This made me bark with laughter: “so there is some slim hope that I am only yoked to an oblivious idiot and not to an incurable pinehole.”
Sometimes I think about how, in life, we are not expected to get along all the time with just about anyone with whom we live for extended periods (parents, siblings, roommates), and in fact in most of those relationships, it is universally expected that there will be years of strife and aggravation. But I feel that there is less acknowledgement that this is true of marriage as well. And yet with marriage, there is not a light at the end of the tunnel, especially with the cohabitation part of the relationship, as there is with, for example, a teenager who will move out of the home in a few years. So in fact Times of Greater Irritation feel all the more acute and can lend themselves to catastrophic thinking so easily (i.e., this is going to continue for the REST OF MY LIFE, WHAT HAVE I DONE). Yes, there’s lots of ink spilled about marital advice, but honestly what I find the most satisfying and helpful is reading about other people’s irritations with their spouses and finding solidarity therein. I mean, it’s upsetting in the sense that we all have to live with these sorts of aggravations, but as with most things there is comfort in commiseration.
Also, I find discomfort with the term “mansplaining” for the same reasons as you cited.
And finally, the behavior detailed here would make my blood pressure skyrocket and I think you have been exceedingly reasonable in your responses thus far.
Oh! Yes. This is useful. Like, when it’s Paul, I think, “Maybe we’re not right for each other.” But if I’m feeling cranky with my brother, I don’t think maybe we shouldn’t be siblings anymore, I just think “I’m kind of cranky with my brother right now.”
Yes. Of course, we don’t have to live with our brothers day in and day out anymore, or sleep in the same bed with them, or encounter them every. single. day. before we have had our morning caffeine, which again makes the doomsday thinking quite understandable in the marital context.
Yes, yes! Thank you for this post, Swistle, and Lawyerish, you put the cherry on top. “So there is some slim hope that I am only yoked to an oblivious idiot and not to an incurable pinehole,” finally broke through my long-simmering resentment over my husband’s Paul-like behavior, so that I could laugh and maybe see this whole thing a little more clearly. I tend to think my irritation is entirely my fault, so it is immensely helpful to see that others would find this behavior rage-inducing, and the “WHAT HAVE I DONE” catastrophe train is my default setting. Neither is helpful, and you both have given me more insight than weeks and weeks of therapy. So, thank you again.
YES YES YES to the WHAT HAVE I DONE, doomsday feelings, and to the helpfulness of solidarity. *fist bump*
I feel your pain! I am coming out of a resentment cycle myself over the staggering volume of our book and cd collection, of all things. Sometimes it’s hard to remember a time when I wasn’t simmering! Hugs.
I am sorry to hear that your husband is making you feel stupid – whether that is his intention or not. And perhaps I can make you feel a teeny bit better by saying that my current husband does that sometimes too, and my ex-husband did it a lot. It’s very annoying, to say the least! Of course, we (women) may intentionally or not make them feel stupid when say, it’s 8 o’clock and they want to turn on a movie for the kids and we’re like, uh no – can’t you see they need bathtime, pjs and story time and then it will be BED TIME? How do you not know this by now??!
I once was in a relationship with someone who casually mentioned, during an explanation of how alike he thought we were, that we each privately thought we were just slightly smarter than the other one. It was news to me as, though I was used to thinking of myself as pretty smart and used to other people thinking of me as pretty smart, I had really thought we were about the same, and it honestly had not occurred to me that he would think any different. I believe the conversation proceeded thusly from there (with me speaking first after I gaped at him like a fish for a second or so):
– You think you’re SMARTER than me?
– Yes.
– You think YOU’RE smarter than ME??
– Yes.
– REALLY?
– Yes.
It didn’t last.
I’m now married to a man who has asserted numerous times that he considers me way smarter than him. For my part, I find him very wise and practical and I value his opinions, even if he’s not “book smart”, so it’s a good balance.
Laughed out loud and read this to my partner. You would think at SOME POINT there may be some backtracking!
Thank you for this. After 34 years of marriage, oh, there are times. “Sometimes marriage is fun, and sometimes it’s a long slog through a smelly swamp…” So, so true; thank you, Leigh.
I am gone in the summers* and when I get back home (especially so this year!) it is difficult for both of us to get used to idea of Living With Another Person and to dial back our selfish ways. And if I think we are having difficulties (don’t you think so? do you think we need some counseling?), he’s all “what are you talking about? I don’t see it.”
*Yes it’s as glorious as it sounds, but I am still working, so it’s not entirely Paradise.
Even though I’ve only been married a year and a half, I have quickly learned that I Do Not Ever Want To Get Into Hypothetical / Philosophical Arguments with my husband. Who is an attorney. Who literally argues for a living, and does it in an entirely emotionless, dispassionate manner. Guess how emotionless I am when I argue, especially when my spouse remains completely unaffected!??!
Ha! My husband is not an attorney, but just last night we were having an argument in which he literally said, “Why are you getting mad at me?” Um … because we’re arguing. It’s conflict. It makes me upset. I am also one who can’t talk politics or anything debatable without becoming a total basket case of emotion, while my husband can spend hours “debating” happily with his friends. It is so infuriating.
YES. And I can i just say—an entire comment string where people are venting about their spouses is great! I love my husband dearly, but he also drives me up the wall. This weekend we were both struck by a stomach bug. He spent all day saturday laying in bed watching movies and feeling terrible…while i wound up watching the kids while feeling terrible. Now, i know that we both feel terrible…but really? Why does he get the monopoly on feeling terrible by himself??!! There! Now I got it out of my system!
All that to say—you are in good company, swistle.
My husband is a teacher and sometimes he talks to me like I am one of his less smart students and it makes me absolutely crazy. Sometimes the things he has to “teach ” me are subjective opinions where no one is actually right, but he insists he is. Ugh. Gentle reminders regarding what I need in terms of tone and message quickly turn into arguments. I usually I wind up using song parodies because then we can at least laugh and since they are catchy, there is a hope it sticks.
My now EX husband is high school teacher. The number of times I told him over the years “Okay, Mr. E, I am NOT ONE OF YOUR STUDENTS.” Mind boggling. I don’t know why he brought that teacher attitude home, but man oh man, was definitely a major change in his personality over the years.
Yes! I am married to a teacher and HATE feeling like one of his students. Fortunately (I guess) he saves the lecture mode for topics about which he genuinely knows more than me and I am genuinely interested. But still. The tone! I may want to know about particle physics but not in that TONE.
First, let me say that I would be going BONKERS and am impressed that you have not yet killed him. Good job, Swistle.
Now I am going to embark on some completely baseless and potentially useless speculation, so please feel free to ignore it. For me, I find it really helpful when I can track my partner’s irritating behavior to a source, even if it doesn’t stop the behavior. For example, my boyfriend recently has been extra-extra-fastidious, scolding me if I leave a tissue around or a sock doesn’t make it to the hamper or the phone charger doesn’t get neatly wound up and put where it belongs. And yes, he’s entitled to be irritated about those things, but I don’t appreciate the scolding and general micromanagement. But I thought about it, and realized that he’s been feeling really underappreciated at work, and not sure how long this job will last, and terrified of what will happen if it doesn’t last, and I realized that he’s feeling really out of control of his life. So this sudden urge to correct me and arrange everything in the apartment to his particular liking is him trying to assert control over his surroundings in the most immediate way he can. It doesn’t make me like it more, but it makes me understand it. (It helps that he’s the type of person who, when I ventured this theory, said “OH yes you’re right, that is definitely what’s happening, I’m sorry.” It helps a LOT.)
So…is it possible, in any way, that Paul is responding to, say, your getting a job outside the house? Maybe him being able to support you and be the breadwinner is important to him in some unconscious way, and he’s feeling a little insecure and like he needs to assert himself as Smart and Important? (In a really, really irritating way?) Or there’s something else going on, at work maybe, making him feel insecure?
Sorry if this is totally useless. I also like Lawyerish’s point about how we aren’t expected to get along all the time with everyone else in our life. Anyway, the upshot is that Paul is wrong and hopefully will stop being wrong someday. It’s good, at least, that he seemed chastened and upset when you told him how it made you feel.
This is a very interesting idea. My new job HAS shaken things up. And HIS job is in a state very similar to your boyfriend’s. And we’re both a little midlife-crisisy right now. I will be interested to mull this over.
I’m 17 years in to a “he corrects me all the time” relationship. My advice? Get out now. The resentment only grows. (drops advice on a column that addresses NOT dropping advice….)
Portia — this is a very very very good point. When my husband is irritating me much more than usual (by bossing me, or over-explaining things to me, or acting irritated that I haven’t taken care of X yet), he almost ALWAYS has some underlying stress/worry/issue and it comes out by being generally more irritable. It’s not an EXCUSE (we are adults! can’t we just say “I am stressed out and feeling so irritable!”) but it is an EXPLANATION and that helps a little.
I was just going to suggest something very similar, Portia! I have noticed with my husband (of many years) AS WELL AS my employer – of many MORE years – that often, when there’s something going on for THEM – something that maybe makes them feel like they’re not as on top of things as maybe they’d like to be (in Husband’s case, it’s been things like Employment Situations and Grown Child Moving Back Home, while in Employer’s case, it’s usually something like Oh My Gosh We’re So Busy Right Now) – when they feel like they have NO control in some area, they will (both!) often exercise this obnoxious superiority thing.
Both of them are generally very decent people, and their pine-holish-ness really is out of character. With Husband, I’ll tolerate it – to a point. Then I have to say something, because REALLY, I’m NOT an idiot! With Employer, though, I tolerate a bit more, mostly because I don’t live with him. That, and he pays me.
Hugs to everyone.
And we go through this too, but I’ve promised him not to talk about it on the internet.
I’m finding Going-on-40 to be SUCH a weird stage. Great post and comments.
As a lurking male, I had to leave a comment which might be helpful (hopefully…) as a gender communication issue. I can’t help noticing that the example used (and many of the comment examples) are practical problems, but ones where the woman is seeking an emotional response. For instance the IT problem is a practical problem, but one where you may be wanting support for your frustration because the usual answers didn’t work. Then when Paul jumps to practical solutions (to the problem he was presented with), his response is emotionally unsatisfying and is interpreted as being superior. Then to show him his emotional response was insufficient, you show irritation which he fails to pickup on. Your last line made me chuckle as a male, because of course 20 years isn’t enough for men to learn how to anticipate, diagnose and respond to unsaid emotional needs. What man would be silly enough to look for emotional issues which he isn’t forced to address…
So what if the script was flipped… instead of presenting the practical problem, present the emotional need and keep the conversation focused on the emotional response before addressing the practical problem. Saying “I’m always feeling aggravated because the house is always messy” and keeping the focus on resolving the aggravation is going to get a better reaction then saying “The house is messy” and expecting him to anticipate how that makes you feel. To a man, the former is a problem that needs a long term emotional solution, while the latter only needs a short term practical solution.
Sorry for the amateur psychology, but flipping the problem topic might help and might even lead to some male learning in less than 20 years if the man becomes used to addressing emotional issues rather than practical ones. One caveat though is that the man might come up with alternate solutions instead of the woman’s preferred method. I can still picture my mom telling my dad the “right” way to load the dishwasher after supper, when perhaps the kitchen getting clean was more important…
We’re all familiar with the “emotional woman wants to vent, practical man tries to fix it” stereotype, but that’s not at all what I’m talking about here. I’m not looking for emotional support from him, I’m not venting frustration, I’m looking for practical ideas for fixing an issue—and he’s saying “Here, just [do the most super-obvious thing which only an idiot wouldn’t have tried and/or things that don’t apply at all to this situation]! There, I fixed it for you! *pat pat*” I’m sure you don’t realize it or else you would have avoided the intense irony, but your comment turned out to be an excellent illustration of the issue at hand.
I could not possibly love you more.
I wish you had a like button.
I had to come back to this comment thread. It has helped me immensely in the “misery loves company” sense, but NOT in the wallowing in misery sense, but in the “these feelings are very normal! they aren’t a sign there is something horribly wrong!” sense.
To add to the baseless speculation, now that you are working, is he finding himself supervising the kids more? Because if my DH had to help the kids do laundry or cook or figure out why the dishwasher won’t start, then a sort of lecturing tone might accidentally spread in my direction.
Or if he is training someone new at work.
Good luck!
I love my husband and we’ve been together 18 years, but if I accomplish only one thing in this marriage, it will be that someday my husband will learn NOT to say “yeah I noticed that” when I mention something is broken/stained/needs doing when he has noticed it but DONE NOTHING ABOUT IT.
Telling me you noticed it does not improve you in my sights mister. Rather it makes me extremely angry that you allegedly noticed it but didn’t fix it. Frankly, it would be easier if he just didn’t notice it. So either keep your noticing to yourself, start lying about noticing stuff, or fix the damned thing when you notice it. Really any of these options would be better. Whew. OK got that rant off my chest.
I love this whole thread.
My husband it’s not “I noticed it” it’s, “I know” but it gets the same reaction “IF YOU KNOW THAT THE POOP IN THE YARD NEEDS REMOVING/TUB NEEDS CLEANING/HOUSE IS A SHITHOLE WHY THE HELL DID YOU NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?????”
“House is a shithole…” Yes. Yesssssssssss. God, adulting is hard.
I thought I was the only one. It slays me that he didnt pick up the sense, or guile, somewhere in life to not admit his crimes unbidden.
Mine left a dirty spot on the counter for a week to see if I would clean it up, then went on forever about how long it had been there before I attempted to clean it up.
Noooooo. This would not have gone over well in my house. Future dirty spots would be cleaned with his toothbrush, or the shirt he’s currently wearing.
If all pastors’ spouses were like Leigh, churches would be busting at the seams.
Ha! I tried being perfect, and it didn’t work out, so the Real Me is what they get.
My husband ALSO has tendencies to talk down to me as if I am stupid, or perhaps a very young child. I usually call him on it immediately, in a hostile tone. “I am NOT an idiot so I would appreciate it if you didn’t talk to me that way!” This may not be the best approach, but I can’t help it! One of my biggest pet peeves is people implying that I am stupid and/or don’t know what I’m doing, so it is particularly frustrating coming from my very own husband.
I have also been feeling very disheartened and put-upon lately, for many of the reasons listed above, and it helps to know that I am not alone! I mean, I wish that nobody had to put up with any of this but I think we all know better than that…
This issue has come up for me most often in the years since my husband became a news junkie and started listening to podcasts. He loves talking about them, which, great, I love talking about the books I read, it makes for conversation, fine. But he has trouble realizing it should be a conversation and that I might know something about the topic. Like he’ll say, “I heard a podcast today about string theory/ terrorism/ Botox for migraines/ infertility, have you ever heard about that?” and I’ll say “Yes” and he’ll start explaining it to me, and I’ll say “I said yes,” and he’ll keep explaining the podcast and I’ll say “Actually I –” and he’ll keep explaining and finally I’ll have to say something like “ACTUALLY I READ A WHOLE BOOK ABOUT THAT, PLEASE SKIP TO THE END.” For my husband, I think it’s just mild self-absorption, but it’s happened often enough that I’ve had to articulate that he’s acting as if I’m ignorant of the world around me even after I’ve told him I’m not. Make it a conversation, dude, with input as well as output.
Are you my mother? Substitute books for podcasts, and you’ve described my Dad in the first few years of his retirement.
My God, jenny, we are married to the same man.
My husband also is the person whose questions are nearly always statements in disguise. Quit asking me if the baby smells funny and needs a diaper change – just change it! Stop asking me if I’ve ever considered going a different route to the restaurant we eat at every single Friday – just tell me what way you want to go.
Your last paragraph really spoke to me! My husband will sometimes make jokes about how much fun it’d be if HE were the one who got to stay home with the kids, but completely overlooks the fact that then he’d be the one handling the household finances and dealing with teachers and coordinating doctor’s appointments and advocating for the kids’ needs. The more skilled you are at multi-tasking and making sure life runs smoothly, the less people recognize how much WORK and SKILL goes into making that happen. So there are definitely different kinds of “smart”, and it’s frustrating when the kinds you’re good at aren’t usually recognized or acknowledged :\
I had this issue once upon a time when I stayed home, and I spent one day keeping a list of every single thing I did–every snack, every bill payment, every phone call, etc. (Full disclosure: I *might* have done a few extra chores that day just to beef up the list, but let’s keep that between us.) That night, I told my husband that his recent comments about “what I do all day” were disheartening, and oh BTW here’s a list of what I actually do all day. He apologized, posted the list on his wall at work, and never said another word about it.
Like!
This may not be the case here, I know I’ve had a case where my husband was irritated at me because he thought I was talking to him like an idiot, but the problem wasn’t that I thought he was too stupid to know about what I was trying to work through, it was that it was complex for me and I didn’t realize it was obvious to him. So, he thought I was trying to explain stuff he already knew and understood to him, but what I was really trying to do what was work with him to figure out something that I didn’t completely understand.
Also may or may not be helpful, but I’ve had happen repeatedly is that when I have shared something with other people that seemed rather obvious to me, they’ve acted all surprised and “Wow, I’ve never thought of that!” which is nice, but rather baffling to me and conversely, I will share something that I think actually is surprising and insightful only to have other people respond with annoyance and “Yeah, of course. That’s obvious.” I really, really wish I could tell better what is obvious to other people and what is not obvious, but I continue to be rather terrible at it.
Not trying to White Knight too much for Paul, but is it possible that he’s an external-processor? I’m like that. When someone presents me with a problem, my mind starts to go through the list of potential solutions, and frequently that list is spoken because I process my thoughts through talking. In other words, I do this to my husband and I don’t mean to (and certainly don’t mean it in a “you’re dumb” kind of way. It’s really more like, I’m dumb and I can’t jump to number 10 solution on my list.
I know the kind of thing you mean (a “thinking aloud” person), but I think that comes across very differently. Paul has a “Here, my very first idea will fix your problem! *brushing hands briskly*” tone or, worse, a “Well, duh” tone. I think someone who is thinking aloud sounds very different: like, “Hm, let’s see. I wonder if…? Well, I think I might start with…”—which wouldn’t at ALL make me feel stupid.
Ugh. ) I hate it when I don’t end a parenthetical.
It seems that most comments are from your point of view (which makes sense as that is who would read your blog), but I thought I’d provide the other side for perspective. I’m the spouse that when I help look for something, I have to look everywhere he has just looked, just in case. I’m the spouse that doesn’t notice the dirty house, mainly because I have a higher tolerance for dirty than he does. I’ve also done a few computer repairs. And honestly, everyone forgets something sometimes. If two minds go over the same problem, they are going to cover the same ground. As someone who is thinking about a problem for the first time, it is hard to listen to someone else talking about what they have done in the order they did it, while trying to brainstorm what I would do. When I am acting my most superior is when I am most desirous of admiration, so it is kind of a complement.
Perhaps you could tell him every time it happens “Paul, you’re doing your superior thing again.” And/or you could ask him to ask you for help sometimes on editing papers or managing social situations.
This doesn’t sound like a different point of view than mine. I have a fairly high tolerance for a cluttered house. If Paul can’t find something, I look everywhere, not just places he says he didn’t look. I forget things sometimes. I fix things sometimes. I understand that two people would think of the same solutions. So I’m not sure why this is the anti-Swistle perspective you’re putting forward here. What Paul is doing is implying, with tone and words, that I am too dumb to think of the solutions he’s suggesting. If you’re acting as if you think your spouse is stupid, and you can justify doing it, then THAT is the other side / other point of view. Or, since it’s a post about a married couple not currently getting along very well, another anti-Swistle perspective would be “No, you ARE getting along. What Paul is doing DOESN’T bother you.”
So is Paul making you feel stupid, or is he making you feel like he thinks you’re stupid, and you do not agree with this assessment? Because I see this as another form of disagreement: “Paul thinks he’s insightful, and I think he’s useless.”
The key thing to remember here is that he is wrong and you are right.* I hope he comes around soon.
*Oh, lighten up, people who want to offer a different perspective on this situation. Sometimes one member of the couple needs to shape up. (An aside: My local parents’ bulletin board had a parent complaining that her daughter had come home from school and said the teacher had said she was annoying. Quite a few people wrote back to say, “Maybe your daughter was being annoying.” Likewise, maybe Paul needs to watch the tone and content of his mouth-sounds.)
“Maybe Paul needs to watch the tone and content of his mouth-sounds.”
Heh.
I always enjoy Slim’s comments.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn’t mean to imply that. I saw a bunch of earlier posts talking about housekeeping and lazy seeming husbands who just don’t get it. I’m the working parent and my husband is stay at home with some part time work. And when I look somewhere my husband already looked, he’s said some things similar to what you said about trying fixes that you’ve already tried. So I though you might like to hear my perspective (if I’m going to try to find something or fix it, I have to start from the beginning). I’ve often found it helpful to think about where the other side is coming from; it helps me argue against it better, rather than just arguing in circles. From reading more in depth and your later comments, it sounds like your main complaint is that your husband has a dismissive ‘you’re so stupid’ tone of voice, not just that he tries fixes you’ve already tried. (As far as I know) the dismissive tone of voice not something I do and not something my husband has mentioned I do, so I can’t speak to why he might be doing that. Personally, I always want to know the why, so I thought my perspective might help.
My husband once asked me, in all seriousness, if I knew how to refill the Brita water pitcher. The one where you lift the lid and pour water into it. I was like “are you really asking me if I know how to make water go into a pitcher?”
YEARS later and I still get angry thinking about it.
My husband was also a champion debater in school and his family loves to argue with each other for fun and sport. I HATE conflict and my sincere desire is for all fights to end quickly. The combination of these two personality types makes 10+ years of marriage feel rather long sometimes.
A triple comment day for me. I guess this one really struck a chord. Or I needed some adult pseudo-conversation.
Anyway, Swistle, I’m glad you shared this. Its really comforting to hear the reality of marriage. We just went through a rough patch and though we’ve pretty well made it it the other side, it’s still nice to know we’re not alone.
Yes to all of this. And lately my spouse has been swamped at work and it’s horrible and I really feel for him and it really sucks. And YET. That means that I have done 200% of the at home stuff for two weeks. And I can’t even discuss it well, except to say that I broke down this morning telling my two year old that I’m a person too and I have feelings too and that I matter. Which no one else in this family seems to remember. (I forgive the two year old for that lapse).
I’m feeling you on this: last week as I was making dinner for the kids, still in my office clothes and preparing to dash upstairs to change into my clothes for my second job which I had to be at in 1/2 an hour, my husband was lamenting as to how he’d been on the go since he got up. All I could do was shrug and say “me too”, though I did have to concede that he’d gotten up 2 hours earlier than I had (though I forbore mentioning that he was winding down and I still had a couple of hours to go).
He went through a phase a couple of years ago where he’d moan and complain about how busy he was, and how between work and the kids and the house and other commitments he never got to stop and take a break*, and how he just had to. keep. doing. stuff. all. the. time. And he really felt that it was not noticed or appreciated by others like it should be. After a couple of weeks of this I finally snapped “This is LIFE. This is part of being an ADULT.” He didn’t take it very well initially, but I have to admit it did seem to stop or at least lessen that line of complaint.
*And it’s not like he didn’t (and still does) find time to watch some TV and/or play hockey pretty much every single day – how are those things not considered “a break”?
Ugh. I HATE those times of feeling just… INCOMPATIBLE on some things with your spouse. Most especially when it is related to one spouse’s respect for the other. To me it balloons in my head to Inevitable Marital Demise. Which is not a fun feeling to carry around with you. (And also a little hyperbolic, Me. Get it together.) I’m sorry you are dealing with this and so very glad that you and Paul are talking through it AND that he is showing the potential for resolution.
And also very glad that you wrote about it. Because marriage seems to be FULL of these times of not getting along. I like hearing how others handle it and work through it – both for themselves and with their spouses.
This! This used to happen much more but after 21 years and intermittent marriage counseling, I do not jump to Inevitable Marital Demise every time we seem so incompatible! I truly thought for many years that only people who ended up divorced felt this way so it is nice to know others go through this and manage to work through it.
Ye GODS.
I’m glad it sounds like he’s willing to listen to you, and willing to accept that just maaaaaybe he’s being horrible.
I think for me personally, there’s a difference between “person X knows they need to recheck obvious things done by person Y or things person Y has said they’ve done, because sometimes person Y has trouble with these things IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION or because person Y is really panicky right now and not necessarily thinking straight”,
and…
“person Y is reliably methodical and doesn’t have the advanced knowledge or other perspective of this situation that person X may have, but can be trusted to have comprehensively, carefully, tried all the basic standard solutions”.
I’ve been on either side of both sets of situations. I think the first is legitimate, sure! I know sometimes I’m panicky and not thinking straight, and it actually helps me to have someone list with me “did you check here, did you turn this off, did you try that”. And I like to do that for other people when they NEED it, too. But the most important thing is being really freaking careful about how the other person is feeling, and how they’ll take it.
Helping someone through being methodical about the small simple ‘obvious’ things, with respect for their abilities, is different from being huffy and rude and dismissive, talking over them, eyerolling, speaking to them like they’re five and a stupid five at that.
But the point is that you’re not talking about that situation anyway. It’s not that you need the help, because you’re panicky, or because it’s something that you personally don’t have a lot of aptitude with. (Like I don’t mind if my husband takes it down to the absolute basics when I’m having trouble getting the stupid lawnmower started. I’m not great with mechanical things, and he uses it a million times more often than I do. I *do* mind if he takes it down to the basics if I say that I can’t get something computer-based to work, because while I’m not flawless, I’m much better at computers than he is, and I’m much more intuitive and comfortable with computers than I am with lawnmowers. He should know that yes, I’ve already tried all the obvious things, trying different methods, restarting, googling, etc. etc.)
(Also, I like that you’ve spoken about different kinds of smarts above. I so totally get that.)
I note, too, another commenter’s point about how some things that are obvious to others aren’t to yourself, and boy that’s hard, isn’t it. I’ve been on both sides of that, too. Where I/the other person tentatively offers something that seems obvious and the other person is/I am surprised by it.
I generally don’t mind when someone suggests something quite obvious to me. I ALWAYS mind when they’re dismissive and don’t preface it with “You’ve probably thought of this already” or “I know you would’ve tried this, what happened when you did it?” or “Forgive me if I make you feel stupid, but I know when I’m in this situation that sometimes it’s helpful when other people go through the obvious things, tell me though if you don’t want me to do it”.
I think my tl;dr here is that I generally don’t mind ASPECTS of what you’re talking about, personally. It’s the attitude that gets me. Especially since I try really hard to be respectful and say things like “You’ve probably thought of this already” when I give someone the first idea that’s come to mind. (I do fail at this sometimes, if I’m in helpful idiot mode instead of helpful oh yes other people have thoughts and feelings too mode.)
I understand if he’s got frustrations in his life that are making him need to be more controlling, making it harder for him to listen to you, and so on. But that doesn’t excuse his behaviour, and that doesn’t mean you should handwave the effects on you.
I’m glad you were able to talk to him, and that things may (?) improve.
I’d be really frickin’ frustrated, too.
Thank you for writing about this, and thanks to all the commenters, too, it’s always good reading the dialogue you guys get into.
My theory is this with my husband: we have four kids and they are all jerks. They drop things on the floor, (in some cases) pee everywhere, wear 15 outfits a day, are generally JERKY. So if he is not 100% on my side all the time, I am the only adult in the house and I hate it. Look alive, I always say. LOOK ALIVE.
This comment made me lol.
Yes, I know that same slim hope very well. “Hope is a thing with eye-rolls that perches on the soul.” –Emily Dickinson, more or less
My husband always complains he can’t have a conversation with his father without being lectured like a child who has once again been saved from the consequences of bad decisions. This despite my husband being very deliberate and responsible – and a 38yo grown man. Guess how I can always tell when he’s spent a time speaking with his father? Yup, the kids and I get lectured like we are established screw-ups. This despite our proven ability to handle things just fine while he works 60 hours a week. Pffft.
This is my favourite post + comments section ever. THANK YOU.
Why can we not like comments here??? This thread is so full of wonderful.