We have a slightly weird issue going on at our house, which is that people, specifically children-people, are perceiving “spending time in delicious, delicious solitude” as “cruel punishment.” For example, Paul and I will be in the living room, and so will FIVE OTHER PEOPLE. And let’s say one of them, let’s say Rob, is trying to work on something that requires concentration. So he gets more and more frustrated because there are six other people MAKING NOISE and BEING ANNOYING. So we suggest, I think reasonably, that he would be happier if he went to one of the MANY CURRENTLY-UNPOPULATED ROOMS IN THE HOUSE. And he says, “Why should I be punished?? THEY should stop being so loud!!”
Example two. Elizabeth is in the living room doing her homework. Edward and Henry and William are also in the living room. William is looking at a website on his phone, and that site is apparently chock-full of things he finds interesting and amusing (“Huh, huh, look at this CAT”), so he keeps sharing those things with his siblings. Elizabeth starts out slow and gentle, with “Would you please SHUT UP?” Within minutes, the situation has escalated to shrieks. Swistle, reasonably, calmly, sweetly, “Hey, I have an idea! You could go to your [own, private, you are LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE IN THE HOUSE WHO HAS THIS PRIVILEGE] room and do your homework there! Nice and peaceful! No brothers allowed!” And she says, even more peeved than before, “I don’t WANT to go to my room, I want THEM to SHUT UP!!!” Swistle: *goes into Elizabeth’s room, shuts door*
Explanations DO NOT HELP. I have tried saying to Rob that it is LOVELY to spend time in one’s room, far from the madding crowd. He continues to assert that this is “him being punished.” Why should HE have to be isolated from everyone else? HE’S not doing anything wrong! In vain do I clarify and explain that peace and quiet for concentration is NOT a punishment. He WANTS peace and quiet; he HAS peace and quiet available to him; why would he suffer noise and distraction ON PRINCIPLE?
It is exactly the same with Elizabeth: SHE was “punished” when we had her go do her homework in her room! Her brothers were let completely off the hook when we allowed them to continue talking in the living room!! It is SO UNFAIR.
Why will they not spend time in their rooms? WHY?? I could understand it if the ones who share a room didn’t want to retreat there when their roommate was there—but that NEVER HAPPENS. And besides, Elizabeth has her very own room but she doesn’t want to go in there much either. All three child-bedrooms sit completely unoccupied even when their services are DEARLY NEEDED.
It’s even more puzzling to me because as a child/teenager I LIKED being in my room. I spent time in the communal rooms of the house too, of course, but it was common for me to go into my room even if no one else was home.
Part of the problem seems to be a confusion with time-outs. They associate their rooms, and being by themselves, with punishment. But surely generation after generation of children have been sent to their rooms as punishment, without them then deciding never to spend a single unnecessary minute there? It isn’t as if we chained them in there in the dark for hours: we sent them there for, say, ten minutes. Not even very often! WHAT IS THEIR DEAL.
Trying not to be annoying but what if you created “special” homework spots in their bedrooms. ie. desk with supplies, calendar, etc. Now I will admit, the likelihood of it actually being used is slim but it may give them the idea of doing their homework in their rooms. One of mine tends to eschew the desk for the floor but he has moved on from the common areas in the house to his room.
I was sent to my room regularly as punishment and I still LOVED spending time in my delicious, solitary room. It had all my TOYS and POSSESSIONS in it.
ME TOO! Even when it was meant to be punishment just going into my room made me feel better. All my stuff! No other people! Ahhhhh.
(I hate that I have to share my room now. Silly husband.)
Kid 2 does her homework at the kitchen table and frequently yells at us for being loud. Kid 3 does her homework at the dining room table. Kid 1 does her homework on the ground in the playroom.
When the kids were very young, we established the playroom. And the kids spend the majority of their time in there watching TV or on their laptops doing whatever the heck it is they do on their laptops. In fact, unless invited to do so, kid shows are not watched on the TV in the living room. Kid shows are watched in the playroom. My husband and I have control over the living room TV. The kids get control over the playroom TV. Two of the three of them have TV’s in their rooms, only on weekend mornings do they actually use them. Two of the three have desks in their room. They aren’t used for homework as far as I can tell.
When I was a kid, we weren’t allowed to do our homework anywhere but our rooms. And we were required to go straight to our rooms after school to do it. We came home, grabbed a snack, and then were in our rooms til homework was completed or dinner was ready. Of course, my mother was a control freak who LOVED rules, and our household was a little ….totalitarian. I don’t recommend my mother’s methods.
However, it might be worth it to set up some boundaries for these types of situations. If someone needs peace and quiet for a task, they need to do that task in their room. The common areas of the house are for everyone; you have no expectation of privacy or quiet in those areas, and if you require privacy and quiet, go to your room.
Yes, agree with the suggestion.
I also wonder if maybe all your kids are extroverts, so perhaps just love being near other people? I loved being in my room, as did my only sibling, but we are both introverts. Just a guess. Although I don’t know how likely it is that all 5 of your kids are extroverts…
Beatings! The beatings shall continue until morale improves!
This made me snort and laugh and then laugh some more.
Ah, your kids are fond of the pleasant white noise and warm lighting of the Cafe Thistle, am I right??? White noise = pleasant hum of TV/blender/whatever. But one chatty person next to you in the cafe = annoying. Perhaps a study lamp or a little music in the bedroom?
Or.
There’s just no pleasing kids :)
I have no answers. Just a strong nod of solidarity.
Same thing here…and even the basement which is full of nothing but their toys! And SPACE! Will they go down there? No. I don’t have any suggestions, but you gave me one! From now on *I* will go into their rooms and close the door! They will surely follow along about .003 seconds later to find me and fight in front of me. I think they just like an audience so they can show off their annoying sibling fighting skills. Its like they just purposely pick at each other in front of me to see who I choose and who gets vindicated. Its so annoying!!!
I agree with this, and I wonder if they aren’t just trying to get you to banish to bedrooms whoever is offending them when they are trying to study. Sort of a power by proxy maneuver.
We have this same issue! Particularly with the ten-yr-old child who, as of this year, has a LOVELY, brand-new and not cheap DESK upon which to do his studying! And yet. YET!!! I so hear you on this.
I wonder if your kids are like I am. I want to be around people (that I know and love – not strangers and crowds!) all the time. Some quiet noise is ok for concentrating, but too much is distracting. But going to my room would feel like being isolated from everyone. I would also suggest music or something that makes some background noise that they have control over.
If that doesn’t remedy it, though, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe a rule as previously suggested that common areas are for all and concentration work should be done in the bedroom?
One last thought; do you request quiet in common spaces when you are working on things? I could see that happening here. I ask for quiet while I compose an email or call someone for an appointment or something, and kids translate that to “anyone can ask for quiet at any time. What if you had a “you can request quiet for up to 5 minutes (with a timer), and beyond that you have to leave the common space?
It’s a conundrum.
yes! this! i am a weirdly social person and spending time alone DOES feel like a punishment to me. i totally want to be surrounded by people i like/love at all times, even if it would make far more sense and help me to be alone.
that said, i usually did my homework alone in my room at my desk. so. i don’t know.
I LOVE reading your blog but it also makes me terrified of parenting beyond the single 18 month old I currently have. And I therefore have zero helpful suggestions. Are the bedrooms near the common space? Would keeping the door open help them feel… unpunished? Music of their choice? Timed exiles only, say 20 minutes of concentrated effort to see how much they get done? I don’t know.
Swistle, what ages are your kids again? Particularly the oldest ones?
My kids all did their homework downstairs until their homework started kicking their butts. So, right around Sophomore year, when AP classes kicked in. My daughter took herself up there voluntarily and was up there for hours, and this year my 16 year old son did the same thing, again voluntarily. He uses a desk, she used the bed or the floor.
It seems to be, at least in my house, related to hitting a breaking point!
That being said, my daughter would seek out her room for solitude and the boys don’t do that AT ALL (except older one for homework.) Then again, we don’t allow internet devices/tvs in there anyway.
16, 14, 9, 9, and 7. Rob has a lot of homework this year (his sophomore year), but he likes to do it at the dining room table, or he’ll bring the laptop into the living room.
Huh, don’t know what I would do in that case then!
I will say that my 13 year old complains when he is doing his homework in the kitchen sometimes, because I like to listen to the radio while I am making dinner. I told him to either go somewhere else (which he seldom does) or put on noise canceling ear phones. He *has* done that.
Sounds like everybody prefers to feel like they’re with the family (or at least not the only one who’s off by themselves). I can sort of understand the feeling… often what I like best is to be with my entire household (4 adults currently) but everybody absorbed quietly in their own thing. Being alone in my room while everybody else is together, even when nothing in particular is going on, feels weirdly desolate. (Except when I have my severe-introvert, “nobody talk to me or breathe near me” moments, when having my own room I can close the door on is glorious.)
A couple possible solutions:
– if there are adjoining rooms (living and dining room or some such), could one be designated “quiet working room” and one “noisy whatever room”? At least for certain evening hours. Having a little physical distance, while still being connected by an open door or entryway, might hit the balance of feeling “together” while not suffering from distractions.
– Do the kids have media-playing devices and decent headphones? Listening to music through headphones is a great way for me to create my own internal working space, whatever’s going on around. The earbuds with the soft plastic covers are enough for me — I don’t need all outside sound blocked, just a more immediate auditory focus — but ear-covering and even noise-cancelling headphones are good for people who are more sensitive or distractable.
Oh, man. I have VIVID memories of shrieking at my mom for splattering food on my homework because she was always COOKING (at the stove) right where I was DOING MY HOMEWORK (at the kitchen counter). Sometimes she would suggest that perhaps I might be more comfortable doing my homework on any of the numerous other flat surfaces in the house, but no. I remember specifically wanting to ONLY do my homework at the kitchen counter. WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO MOVE WHEN YOU’RE THE ONE SPATTERING FOOD?
So I guess what I’m saying is that the answer is: children are unreasonable.
Ha ha: Swistle: *goes into Elizabeth’s room, shuts door*
I’ve gone to my boys’ room to hide before, too. It took them forever to find me.
Word, Swistle. Sometimes I dream of a bigger house, and then I think, “Why, when they don’t even use the rooms we have?”
SuperJules: that story cracks me up!
I only have one child, a toddler, so I don’t know that I can presume to give advice, but here it is…
Anyone who wants quiet in the common areas gets offered earplugs.
Timeouts take place somewhere other than the bedroom (growing up, it was always the 1/2 bath, but perhaps the laundry room or the porch or a walk-in closet or the stairs?) We had considered doing timeouts in a playpen, but decided against it for just this reason that you mention.
Ugh. I’m glad to know I’m not alone. I used to homeschool the older three and my then 4th grader would be livid that the younger two and I were making so much noise, you know, teaching/learning math.
But not only the kids, my husband insists on working ON THE COUCH!!! Holy crap! Then he’s annoyed that everyone is so loud. For the love of Pete why he can’t go and recline on our bed is beyond me!
My husband, who I dearly love, will take work calls in the living room, then get irritated at the children for not being quiet. DRIVES. ME. INSANE. I mean, that phone is literally wireless, walk yourself into another room and take the call. Jesus, take the wheel.
Fortunately we don’t have homework for my first grader but he does a similar thing during the little’s nap time. Little is napping and Mom and Dad have some chore that needs done. We reasonably suggest he read in his room (he loves to read) while xyz chore is done and then maybe mom or dad can engage in preferred activity (say riding bikes, playing monopoly, etc). I mean the horror of suggesting the child do something he enjoys! Of course later when he’s bored of whatever he wanted to do and chores are done, he will be reading. It has to be his idea.
Are the children requesting the quiet in the space first? It seems like if they choose to sit down in a noisy place then that’s the choice but of they were there first then I could see why they’d get annoyed. Similarly was it quiet and then got loud? I again could see how they’d be peeved. Which is not to say you are wrong because you are giving them a very reasonable solution. But it would make more sense why they’d be so indignant. See also: children are not reasonable. Ever.
I think it would be frustrating in Elizabeth’s case for example, if she was there first and then her brothers came in later and started being loud. The person who is using the room first gets to dictate the tone of he space. The boys could go to their rooms to be loud there. The reverse is also true- it would be unreasonable to demand silence in an already noisy room.
That’s what my family finds as “fair” but of course that varies between people and situations.
Oh! I like this idea. My husband comes in while I’m watching my “stories” and gets irritated when I don’t want to hear a long rambling summary of Odysseus, I try to gently explain that he had his chance for long rambling summaries of Odysseus before I started watching the incomprehensible “Game of Thrones,” but he doesn’t care. Nothing will stop him in his quest (pun!) to interrupt my quiet time. I WAS THERE FIRST!
Yes—at our house, the living room is a designated “talking/noisy” area. Even if someone is there first, reading or studying, that doesn’t override the purpose of the room. That’s why it’s frustrating to me when Elizabeth gets frustrated: this is a clear and long-standing policy.
I have had this battle for years. YEARS. I finally had to tell the children that the LIVING ROOM is for LIVING. Should you find someone annoyingly LIVING in the LIVING ROOM, you should be the one to leave, not them. Now, being annoying for the sake of being annoying is another story, and another rant for another time.
YES! This is my line, too!
If the living of other people annoys you, AVOID THE LIVING ROOM.
This is a difficult concept.
I love this, and I plan on using it. You are so rational and reasonable!
This is bringing back memories of me and my siblings following our mom from room to room while she was on the phone or working on something. We had a huge house, we just seemed to wander after her to play nearby. Must have been maddening!
This. This is MY children. I am not a phone communication person (except to use it for texting and whatnot), and really the only people I have phone conversations with on a regular basis are my mom, my sister, my business partner, and my husband (during his 20-minute drive home from work; he’s a chatty guy). I MAYBE engage in a phone call to someone other than those 4 people once every 2 weeks, at most, and I normally try to make any non-personal calls during the hours my kids are in school. But somehow, in those rare moments that I find myself on the phone with someone – anyone – that is the moment my children HAVE to tell me a story about a squirrel or a TV show or sing the song lyric that popped into their head right then, even though they’ve largely been ignoring me for the two hours prior to this moment. Makes me NUTS.
Oh man, I just about split my side open reading this because YES, YES, and YES (one big yes per kid). I know I should be valuing the fact that they want to be close to us at all times, with us at all times, part of the family, and yet, they continue to vex me with their need to impose their own privacy limits on the common areas, while ignoring their own carefully curated spaces. GAH.
Also, superjules: Winning the comments :).
My kids are barely ever in their rooms either!
It’s not just kids. Picture this: family dinner at my dad’s place. Around the table is my dad, stepmother, two adult brothers, myself, my husband and my 2 kids. The conversation is humming. The phone rings and my dad goes to answer it. It’s cordless so he brings it back to the dinner table. The rest of us continue as we were. My father gives us increasingly furious glares, then eventually puts his hand over the phone and hisses at us all to SHUT UP!!!
Dude, it’s a cordless phone – why would you bring it back to literally the only room in the house with anyone in it and then get mad that we’re distracting you?
My husband used to do this with his cell phone all the time. Dude! It’s a *mobile* phone, take it where there are no other family members! Sigh.
My kids are pretty much only in their rooms to sleep and get dressed. They hardly ever want to go in there either!! Even our glorious, huge upstairs bonus room that is FILLED with their toys and art supplies is very often sitting empty. I guess I should be flattered they want to be with me, but sometimes I know that I am not that pleasant to be with and they still insist.
Perhaps make the suggestion before they get started and then annoyed? Part of the issue may simply be that they are already aggravated and now a Request is being made of them, and not the other children. Maybe brainstorm in advance about how they could solve the problem?
Frustrating.
I don’t believe in threatening, of course, but. If the boys’ bedrooms are not being used for anything but sleep, that feels wasteful. Perhaps they could be consolidated, freeing up another common area. A homework room, perhaps.
Actually, right now we do have one small bedroom for three children and one large “bedroom” that is a toy room. It will likely become a bedroom for two children once they outgrow toys. Or not.
Superjules – awesome.
Also, I’m very interested in the different approaches to how a room is used – determined by the first person there or determined by the nature of the room. I think I like the latter better.
I literally rushed to the comment box before reading everyone’s comments (which I will go back and do) because I had this same problem this Fall. Oldest reached middle school and had regular, challenging homework for the first time. He, of course, insisted on doing it in the dining room. To be fair, he is an extrovert and he doesn’t have a desk in his room because there is not any space for one yet. Nevertheless, he would be go irritated with Youngest (5) who had no homework and wished to continue being as loud as ever playing her things in the living room (adjoins dining room, no door to close). Neither would go elsewhere to do their thing. Finally, I got a pair of noise canceling headphones and an app that plays the sounds of wind the in trees. Put the headphones on Oldest and played the app. Perfect! He could study near the family but not hear Youngest play or my cooking etc. We are probably going to get him a loft bed with a desk under it before next year so he can study in his room, but I suspect he will keep working in the communal areas of our house as long as he can.
I love the headphones idea. I have seriously toyed with the idea of just getting some for myself. But that’s another story.
Family of introverts here. Everybody loves their room. I have to fight to get people to come out of their rooms. I’ll…. show myself out.
Ha!
I’m an introvert, but I don’t remember ever doing homework in my room after elementary school (and even then I only liked to do it in my room because it made me feel grown-up). I was always at the dining room table or kitchen bar. Sometimes, the living room couch. I think homework can feel very isolating to children, like they’re trapped with it until it’s finished and missing out on whatever everybody else is getting to do. I never had any problem using my room for play, or to write in my diary when I was older, or anything else I did by choice. But if I’d been made to do homework there, I would have been miserable, because homework is kind of miserable.
I’ll also say that when I did my job as an employee in a cubicle farm (as opposed to from home, as I do now), the one big benefit was being able to turn and ask somebody a question, or chat briefly about something non-work-related to let my brain briefly recharge. I prefer to be in communal spaces even when I’m alone in them (especially when I’m alone in them?). They give me a feeling of comfort, whereas my home office sometimes makes me feel dread, even though it’s a better working environment.
All that said, as an adult with children, anywhere isolated, even the bathroom, now feels like a haven. Since I have a preschooler who is very particular about where she plays, even if it means constant fights with her toddler sister, I also feel your pain.
i second the headphones idea(s)!
This is why I fell apart when we had an open concept house. There was no escape. Terrible way of living for an introverted mom with highly social kids –including a non stop whistler.
Yesterday Egg was in my bed with me during the day. I was reading and she was playing on her tablet. She turns to Mr and says: “It’s so quiet in here!” My response: “Why do you think I’m in here so much?”
That was supposed to be “turns to me” not turns to Mr. *sigh*
My daughter loves to spend time in her room — reading, doing homework, listening to music, playing. My son, ever since he was tiny, would do anything to avoid his room for anything but sleep. He shrieked at time-outs like we were plunging him in boiling oil and now does homework on the couch. At least they’re not bugging each other during homework time as they do most of the rest of the day.
I do not understand this at all. I loved being in my room so much that to punish me, my mother would make me sit at the dining room table. WITH NO BOOKS.
Your children are freaks. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth.
Can I have one of their rooms? I would pay good cash money to have my own private space again.
My kids are too little to have homework, but they still do this. They drag all their toys/books/puzzles into the living room, no matter how many times I drag it all back. And when baby brother ruins the block city or eats a puzzle piece or takes off Elsa’s shoe, does big sister reasonably take her toys back to her room and shut the door so she can play in piece? No, she starts a big fight.
So relieved to see this will continue for the REST OF THE CHILDREN’S LIVES.
This is one reason why my mom never sent us to our room as punishment. She had heard from other parents that sending kids to there room confused the kids (usually preschool age) into thinking that when it was bedtime they were being punished. Time outs at our house were in a chair in the middle of the living room. If we moved from that place or spoke to others our time would restart. My mom said she really never had bed or nap issues. However we would never sit on the chair even to put shoes on!
I am here to offer hope! My 12 year olds do the same thing–homework in the kitchen or living room and get super irritated when people are doing NOISY things in there–making dinner=noisy. I have often suggested that since the kitchen is the only place in the house where I can prepare dinner, that perhaps if my chopping bothers you –you should take your math book elsewhere.
Fast forward to yesterday when one daughter was STILL doing homework (can I take an aside to note that miss perfectionist should NEVER be given homework that requires illustrations. thanks geometry!) and even though she was using the computer in the main living area–requested I print out the pages she was working on so she could GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. I don’t know if it was that my husband came home, and I was filling him in on the day’s big event or what, but she did not do her typical hissy fit! She took her math pages and went to the basement! I suspect she picked there because the wifi is stronger and she likes apple radio while she works (and she may have been IMing friends which is why the homework takes such glacial pace these days).
When I was a kid I always did my homework at the kitchen table or living room. The whole area was open and it drove me crazy when my dad would insist on having the TV on. We both had other places to work but it was in the basement where it was frigid all year — in the winter because it was winter and in the summer because of the air conditioner. My parents kept insisting I use a space heater but since I had a loft bed it would heat the top of the room so much while heating the desk part to a normal temperature that I couldn’t sleep at night. I survived and so did my dad but to this day I almost never allow the television or radio on because the noise STILL makes me want to scream.