This weekend Rob wanted to talk about going to the principal of the high school where he is a brand-new freshman, to protest the sexism of there being only a girls’ softball team and no boys’ team. This is the kind of topic that has two main layers:
1. The “Is it sexism?” layer, which makes me exhausted and furious, and which I don’t think he has the brain development to understand yet, and which I’m not entirely sure I can figure out either, and
2. The “Should he do this?” layer, which is interesting to me and it’s the kind of conversation that makes it fun to have teenaged kids.
So I focused on the second layer, though I addressed the first layer by saying, “Yes, and how there’s only a boys’ wrestling team, and only a boys’ football team, and only a boys’ baseball team!” because OH MY GOD ALREADY I FEEL THE RISING NEED TO CRY AND/OR INFLICT PAIN.
The second topic has lower emotions for me. It’s something I feel like I can talk about in a neutral and cheerful way, because it feels more PRACTICAL. SHOULD he go to the principal about something like this? Yay, he’s going to be sorry he ever brought it up! (Except he won’t, because he loves this kind of picking-apart-the-issues conversation. It’s one of his redeeming qualities.) (I mean, for ME it is. Paul finds it tiresome in both of us, and is grateful that at least it means I don’t mind handling that aspect of child-rearing.)
He could start by considering what his stake is. Does this affect him personally? That is, does Rob want to play softball, and that’s why he’s protesting? No, he does not want to play softball. Does he know any boys who DO want to play softball? No, he doesn’t. Does he want to help organize a boys’ softball team? No, he does not. It’s not that I think the person registering a complaint has to be someone affected by the issue, nor do I think that person needs to fix the issue or be the one to come up with an alternative solution (that would be like saying the customer who reports that a pipe is leaking in the store bathroom has to be the one to figure out why it’s leaking and then also be the one to make the repair—and also that they shouldn’t have reported it because it didn’t bother them when they were in the bathroom and now they’re leaving the store so it isn’t their issue), but it would certainly give WEIGHT to the complaint if Rob had a reason for making it other than pure pique. But no, it’s just the pique.
Next is to figure out if/why it’s a problem to anyone, apart from Rob’s personal stake. Because if _I_ were the principal, I would be motivated to move this issue up the priorities list only if there were boys who wanted to play softball or if this set-up was making girls or boys feel like second-class citizens: if no boys want to play softball, and if girls/boys aren’t being treated differently in a bad way, I’d feel like I was going to a lot of effort just for a theoretical issue, and would want to first deal with all the actual issues demanding my attention, such as a group of girls asking for the right to have a wrestling team. (With a side-note here to Rob about how of course maybe things were SET UP to MAKE boys not want to play softball, in which case that was another issue to discuss. Rob, who had been gearing up to make that point, stood down, mollified.) I don’t know if it’s a problem or not—but then, I’m not interested. If Rob is interested, he can think through why he considers it a problem.
All right, then! The next step is to make sure Rob understands the actual situation. IS it a girls-only softball team? Or may boys try out and play? There are only girls on the cheer squad right now, but boys are certainly welcome to participate (and in fact they are in huge demand): it’s “the cheer squad” not “the girls-only cheer squad.” Or are there perhaps boys’ softball tryouts every year, but they can only have a team if there are enough boys to make a team, and there aren’t enough? Because that would be a very different situation than the “only girls get a softball team” situation Rob is objecting to. I suspect it IS a girls-only team, but it would be wise to verify this before storming the principal’s office.
Next! Assuming it IS girls-only, let’s find out WHY it’s girls-only. I notice there’s no girls’ baseball team. So are we perhaps talking about a girl version and a boy version of a sport? Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether such a division is necessary or polite, it’s good to see if we can understand the idea behind the set-up. I looked up softball on Wikipedia, and it was not started as a women’s game or as a women’s version of baseball: it was just a variation on baseball that could be played indoors in the off-season. Wikipedia says that in the U.S., it is played both both men and women, both recreationally and competitively. It notes, though, that “Competitive fastpitch softball for girls is growing increasingly popular.” So while it seems that in our school district it might be baseball for boys and softball for girls, it’s not like it has to be that way. Is it that year after year they offered both baseball and softball for both boys and girls, but year after year there weren’t enough girls to make a baseball team or boys to make a softball team? Maybe our school is big enough for two teams but not for four, and there was a vote at some point, or maybe there’s an annual survey to find out what the kids want the next year. Maybe there are national organizations making these decisions, and the principal has nothing to do with it. It would be good to get some backstory.
And what would Rob like the result of this meeting to be? Again, it’s not that the person who notices a problem is in charge of fixing it or even in charge of knowing what should be done instead—but it would be useful to know ahead of time whether he wants an explanation, a solution, or a vent. If he wants an explanation, my guess is that the principal has one prepared. If he wants to vent, my guess is that the principal is up to the task of saying something soothing about how he’s glad Rob came to him with this. If he wants a solution, it would be good to at least have a concept of what SORT of solution he has in mind—or to know that he doesn’t have any idea, so that he can say so frankly if asked, without being surprised by it and stammering and letting the principal think, “Uh huh, another teenager just venting pique.”
Rob could also consider that we all have only a limited amount of time and energy to spend, so we have to pick and choose our issues and missions. Is this one that’s near the top of his personal priority list, or would his time be better spent elsewhere, while someone who DOES want a boys’ team, or DOES have an idea for fixing the issue, or DOES play sports at all, takes this one? I would not, of course, want to imply that hormones can lead to Feeling Pissy, and that Feeling Pissy can lead a person to take up Irritation-based Causes—but if this IS a Feeling Pissy and an Irritation-based Cause, perhaps those could be usefully redirected to something he’d have more long-term interest in, such as spiffing up the computer team.
You are so much better at this kind of thing than I ever was. With the Boys I would have said “Huh, well, there must be a reason. Now go practice your trombone.” As a school administrator, though, I can tell you that “…but it would be useful to know ahead of time whether he wants an explanation, a solution, or a vent,” would endear him to the principal in about two seconds. I rarely see anyone with a gripe who is clear on this.
My first reaction was the same as MomQueenBee’s (but replace trombone with violin). :)
I know at our school funding is an issue — they just can’t do it all. There has to be enough desire and then enough funding or it can’t happen.
Love they way you thought it all out!
Another thing that he might want to research (if this is more than just pique) is if other schools in the area have a Boy’s Softball team or a Coed Softball team. Also, the organization that regulates the Softball games might be a place to check for regulations about boys and girls playing on the same team.
I have personal experience in doing research for Title IX Sports Equity at the community college that I work for. I had to research what sports were offered at high schools in the two counties that we pull 75% of our enrollment from. This included a range of schools from a large metropolitan area to small rural schools and I never found a boy’s or coed softball team. It was always boys on the baseball team and girls on the softball team. The only time I found boys/men on a softball team was when it was organized for adults (over 18) at a community center.
All that being said, I think you handled the situation well!
Ooo, I’d be interested to know if you found out WHY it’s boys on the baseball team and girls on the softball team. It’s the kind of answer that, if we knew it, could be a point in favor OR a point against going to the principal about it.
That would be a great question to get answered! Unfortunately, we were just interested in what sports were offered, not why some were or were not offered. If I had to guess, it would be that softball is seen as the “girls version” of baseball.
I also do the Federal Equity in Athletics reporting for our college and when selecting what sports we offer, there isn’t even a place to choose Women’s/Coed Baseball or Men’s/Coed Softball. Only Men’s Baseball and Women’s Softball are options. If you go to https://surveys.ope.ed.gov/Athletics/Index.aspx and click on the User’s Guide (it’s a PDF) and go to pg 31 of the file (or pg 27 if you are looking at the typed pg numbers) , you can see what I am talking about.
There’s a perception, at least where I live, that softball is easier and less serious than baseball, which is for boys/men. Softball is treated as baseball light. So there’s women who play softball and are super serious about it, it’s their sport, they’re good at it… and there’s guys who play baseball and are super serious about it as a sport and hostile to women joining… and there’s guys who join weekend softball leagues and drink beer while playing. While it’s not a sport that excludes men, and it’s not an activity that men are considered non-manly for playing, it’s not really considered a Real Man Sport Like Baseball. Volleyball is similar. Guys might play volleyball on the beach in the summer and have fun and that’s ok, and they might play it in gym class, but “serious” volleyball teams are all girls/women.
I remember in high school gym, the boys had a wrestling unit while the girls did aerobics. We were all fine with that, though.
I think teaching him that when he complains about something, he should have a solution or two planned out ahead of time is a fine thing to do. Some day his work colleagues will thank you.
Swistle, I love all your logical and thoughtful points! In any argument, particularly one involving sexism, I start and stop at NEED TO CRY AND/OR INFLICT PAIN. When I have kids, I wish to hire you as my discussion-haver. In fact, I may need to put you on contract now to handle my Marital Discussions Concerning Politics and Other Topics.
So many excellent things about this post especially, “But no, it’s just the pique.” I love that you really engaged him in a substantive discussion about this, because it seems like the kind of thing that would make a lot of parents just say, “Oh, PLEASE. Get over it and go clean your room.”
I agree with Meredith. I would have got stuck on the “And boys have football. And boys have wrestling. And boys have rugby. And boys have…” part. :)
As someone who was known for having causes in high school and airing them publicly, sometimes to the point of feeling like I had to somehow make everything about said issue, I think it’s valuable to encourage him to speak up. I still remember the times I made a big deal about some specious issue and I still feel pretty silly about some of them. But the lesson there is that it helped teach me how to figure out what was a legitimate (and actionable) gripe and what was just me being strident for no reason. It sounds like you’re doing an amazing job of talking that out with him, but sometimes there’s nothing like a little public embarrassment to make you think twice in the future (although I expect he would not admit to embarrassment so much as being grievously wronged).
These are the sorts of conversations that get me wrapped around the axle because of point #1. There is SO MUCH feminist theory and discussion and critique about single sex activities and inevitably, as soon as any whiff of desegregating a male-only area or creating a female only safe-space (like for instance domestic violence shelters), men come out of the woodwork with there “but what about the MEN?!” cries and I get stabby. Because there is no single easy answer, but there is a whole lot of mansplaining and shouting down.
If he really does want to learn more about sexism (and understand why in feminist theory, you can’t be sexist against men because the societal balance of power contributes to determining what is sexist and what is biased) and is not just being contrary, there are lots of good resources. I would suspect Rookie would be a good place to start since it’s targeted at teenage girls.
I second the Rookie recommendation and would also add Straight White Male by John Scalzi which uses video game metaphor to explain why sexism against men is not as straightforward as it sounds.
I don’t know if this is the case everywhere, but here, the boys/baseball girls/softball division starts early, in the city rec leagues. I believe it is co-ed tee-ball when the kids are really little but by age 8-10 it separates. I’ve never heard of a boys’ softball team in any school, only for men in 18+ city leagues. So even if a team somehow was formed, I’m not sure who they would play.
I love how well you thought through all the issues here. What types of conclusions did Rob come to?
I think this short NPR article on softball and baseball has some interesting back story:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4675763
Wow. I would never have spent such quality time helping my theoretical teenager through that. I am not that thoughtful about anything, and this makes me feel pitiful toward myself.
Will you be my mom? Is that weird?
You can room with Elizabeth—it never feels fair that she has her own room when everyone else has to share.
All I can imagine is the principal sitting behind his desk, with his hands tented, and one eye-brow raised. I don’t know why. But it’s funny in my head.
I think it’s a good opportunity for him to pursue it. I think either way: something is learned.
And yes, you are amazing.
I feel like I want to make a template of this so I can use it with my kids when they are teenagers and being angsty.
Having logical conversations with my future teenagers seems like it might be the one bright spot about the upcoming years, though I suspect whether or not they listen to said logic will probably depend on the current state of their hormones.
Have him look up Title IX…part of the Education amendments of 1972. I seem to remember that forces schools to have the same number of girls and boys sports. So since there is boys only wrestling and football…there have to be some additions to the girls list of sports. I may not be entirely accurate…but I remember Title 9 being a big deal when creating high school sports teams.
Filing this away for reference in ten years. I would seriously buy a book of your posts, just for reference.
I love the way you dissect topics like this. I tend to be a little bit of a hot head, and when I get stirred up it doesn’t take much for me to be passionate about my cause…true story, when I feel myself getting upset I stop and think: “What would Swistle tell me to do? What is it that I want to happen? Is that achievable?” Its very soothing.
I am with Phancymama. If you published your blog posts into a book, I would buy a copy for myself, a copy to loan out, and a copy to put in a crappy day package.
Around here, anyway (Texas), girls play softball and boys play baseball, period. It seems utterly redundant to have a boys’ softball team, or to have boys on the girls’ team, when they each have their own options. I would caution Rob against bringing up his questions with the principal, as they seem to come from a place of challenging authority simply for the sake of argument, rather than a real concern about parity.
What I think Rob and I are both wondering is why IS it baseball for boys and softball for girls? Why not two baseball teams (one boys, one girls) and no softball teams, or two softball teams and no baseball teams? Why have it different for boys and for girls?
Not to complicate the issue, but this may be an athletic director conversation instead of a principal conversation. He/she may have more insight into the baseball/softball split. Also, where we live in Wisconsin we often have girls play on the football team or wrestle with the boys so maybe it isn’t rules driven, but the division is just the accepted way it has been done in the past? So much to think about!
In my state, there is no boys softball in school. It isn’t a sport that is regulated by our State Secondary Sports Athletic Association, so there are no organizations. If there are no boys softball teams to compete against, then the argument dies. I might love the game of cricket, but if there are no school cricket teams in my area, then why would my school form a team (same for snowboarding or waterskiing or water polo or any other legitimate sport that just isn’t one in which schools usually have teams). If he’s really interested in the sport itself, he could focus on an intramural aspect.