So now Blogger is back up, but Twitter is down. This has been a disorienting couple of days. At least it was not both at the same time! APOCALYPSE.
I posted a new review yesterday:
ARM & HAMMER® Spinbrush® MY WAY! ™ Toothbrush
and Orajel ® MY WAY!™ Kids’ Toothpaste—and a $100 Visa Gift Card Giveaway—and if you are wondering if I was required to write those things in all-caps with exclamation points, that would be a big AFFIRMATIVE! (Also, the names must not be broken between two lines; thus the awkward formatting.) Anyway, I tell you this not only because part of my contract involves telling you about it, but also because when Blogger went down it lost all the comments—so if you commented on the post after it went up mid-day Thursday but before Blogger went down later in the day, you’ll need to re-comment to be entered.
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Rob made me so angry the other day, I could barely talk about it. Paul had checked Rob’s homework as usual, and had made Rob re-do a math worksheet on which Rob (1) hadn’t done the problems the way he was supposed to, (2) hadn’t shown his work the way he was supposed to, and (3) had gotten the wrong answers. And Rob had better grow up to be a stunning trial attorney who works either for justice or for our exceedingly comfortable retirement years, whichever, because ROB CANNOT BE WRONG. Does he seem to be wrong? NO, YOU ARE WRONG. Can you prove him to be wrong? NO, THERE IS ANOTHER EXPLANATION. Can you calmly and quietly explain to him that everyone is wrong sometimes, and that in this case it is his turn? NO, HIS EARS ARE NOT HEARING YOUR IMPOSSIBLE CONCLUSION IN RE HIS WRONGNESS.
So. Rob maintained despite all evidence to the contrary (written instructions at the top of the sheet; the provably wrong answers) that he was doing it the way he’d been taught AND that he DID have the right answers. It was obvious his ears were no longer connected to his brain: during the time he should have been listening to Paul’s admirably patient explanations, it was clear that all he was doing was compiling his next argument to explain why he COULD NOT be wrong, whatever the evidence seemed to be. After MANY (again, admirably patient) attempts, Paul finally sighed and said all right, Rob could continue to believe he was right if he wanted to, but Paul was nevertheless telling him that he must redo it the way the instructions said, and with the work shown, and with the correct answer at the end. Rob FUMED the entire time.
The next day, Rob presented us triumphantly with a signed note from his teacher (he emphasized this to us: “SIGNED”) saying that he was supposed to show his work and do the problems the way he’d been taught. He had evidently explained to her that his parents were doing exactly what the teachers had said they might, which was to try to make him do math The Old Way. When, as you know if you’ve been following along, Paul was NOT trying to do: he was telling Rob he had to do the problems not “the way Paul learned in school” but “the way shown at the top of the paper.” AND, Paul had been TELLING HIM TO SHOW HIS WORK.
Not only is this blisteringly embarrassing to me to think of Rob telling the teacher that we were forcing him to do what we were NOT forcing him to do (and then having her SIGN A NOTE to that effect) (and I can’t think of any way to explain to her what actually happened, without looking crazy/defensive/over-reactive AND making HER feel embarrassed), but our theory that Rob’s ears are entirely disengaged at such times was demonstrated with excruciating clarity. I don’t know how Paul kept his temper, because I started CRYING with the effort not to BEAT ROB WITH A STICK and then perhaps send him to his room until the next school day, when I would shove him ahead of me into the classroom and force him to tell his teacher what had ACTUALLY happened, and give her a SIGNED note saying that SHE may now beat him with a stick.
But all Paul did was sigh and explain AGAIN. To which Rob said, “OHHHHHHHHHH… _I_ thought you meant…” (that was when I started crying with frustration).
And you know how everyone expresses exasperation at the “Just wait!” people, and yet the “Just wait!” people continue to say “Just wait!”? I can feel them out there, so tempted to tell me what small potatoes this incident is in comparison to what is to come as my 12-year-old gets into his teens, closely followed by his four siblings.
I always wonder what it is such people hope to accomplish with that kind of talk. Do they want us to give up on this whole child-rearing endeavor, and leave home and/or kick the children out so we won’t have to deal with the horrors that await us? Do they want us to go back in time and not have children? Are they hoping to plunge us into ineffectual and pointless despair as we contemplate upcoming years of Ever Worse? Are they imagining that we are somehow so blind and delusional, we believe that our current complaint represents the worst we will or could encounter? Do they want us to imagine them rubbing their hands together with poorly-hidden happiness at the thought of our upcoming surprise and distress?
Oh wow. That would make my head explode. So sorry!
I have a child that does that exact thing as Rob ALL THE DAMN TIME. Unfortunately for him we are not as patient (and he’s a tad older I think) and I have reached the point of “FINE, fail school!” Which he took to heart and has been doing all year. I’m so sorry you must endure the detachment of ears from brain. May this pass quickly.
Our family motto is “often wrong, never in doubt.” Sounds like Rob may a member of that tribe as well.
Also, this is just another example of the evilness of math, IMHO. It’s basically ruining everyone’s lives all the time.
That whole Rob thing just confused the hell out of me. I read it twice, so I really tried :)
But yes, I agree with the above commenter, MATH SUCKS!
My son is in 4th grade and we have similar arguments sometimes, but not nearly as patiently. Lately I’m leaning towards letting him leave it as is and hope that the teacher straightens him out… which, isn’t that the point, that the homework gets turned in to the teacher, who corrects it… we parents who go above and beyond, it’s a thankless task, I tell you.
That next day “OHH…” is very familiar, too. For my son, sometimes he just won’t get what I’m telling him, because he’s too wrapped up in the drama of it, but if we drop it till the next morning it’s like talking to a different kid.
And feel free to smack the “Just wait” people – I think they’re just jealous because they miss the early stages, so they want to ruin it for us. :-)
Ugh. I am so over the “JUST WAIT…” comments! I am pregnant and all I keep hearing is, “Oh, you’re tired today? JUST WAIT until the baby gets here and keeps you up all night.” “Oh, you’re uncomfortable right now? JUST WAIT until you are 9 months pregnant in AUGUST.” Um, thanks. HOW ARE ANY OF THOSE STATEMENTS KIND OR HELPFUL?!
Oh, I have not loved a post this much in a LONG TIME. I do hope Rob considers the debate team.
A SIGNED NOTE! It’s a shame there was not a notary available!
YES! YES YES YES YES YES! What do those people think they will accomplish by telling you these things? Oh, I am tired? Wait until my child has a sleep regression? Wait until the busy season at work? Maybe I should just sell the baby and quit my job so I don’t have to be tired anymore. (Kidding… I would never sell my child!) What do they gain? Jerks. :)
Sorry Rob is a know-it-all. Maybe he will have very difficult children when HE’S a parent!
Oh, for the love…
That sounds infuriating. My 2nd born is ALWAYS right and I dread the years ahead with homework and such.
My children’s ears are not connected to their brains AT ALL. It is like talking to a wall in my house. Definitely my biggest frustration with them on a day-to-day basis. BUT I am one of those (accidentally) annoying “just wait!” people. My defense is that I’m just trying to make conversation and tell an interesting story to relate to other people, NOT that I’m trying to rub in how bad things are going to get. But, you know, my MOUTH isn’t connected to my brain, so I say stupid stuff all the time.
Wow, I bet you were frustrated! I sounds like you and Paul handled it admirably. There was no screaming or sending to the room followed by screaming. (That is my house, I am describing, by the way.) There was even an “Ohh” the next day when the ears got reattached to the brain.
Homework is so hard. I feel for you on this one.
Ooooooh, kids and math. It’s the same way with my son who is 13. The beginning of this school year nearly killed us all. I’m ashamed to say I regressed to some 13-year-old behavior myself during those evenings.
I’m afraid I would have had to let him take that worksheet to school as is and chalked that one up to a lesson learned.
And I’m with you – I’d be mortified wondering what that teacher must think of me, ‘silly parent, not understanding her kid’s homework.’
Oh there are times when it takes every fiber of my being not to flip out on my son when I review his homework, explain that he didn’t follow the directions AT THE TOP OF THE PAPER, and then endure arguments and bologna from him for 20 minutes rather than fixing the damned thing. If I had the money, I’d pay someone else top dollar just to review and deal with my son’s homework. My husband is nearly incapable of dealing with the homework thing so it’s up to me (and my partners gin and tonic…).
Ack. Such a hideous age. THEY know everything, and WE THE PARENTS are morons. Gotta love it, huh?
About the “just wait” thing – I suspect it’s kind of a way of feeling superior – so you think YOU’VE got it bad, well, wait till you see how BAD I’ve got it!
Or maybe it’s a stupid way of saying, oh, honey, it’s not so bad – enjoy it while you can, because, well, you know, it’s going to get worse.
It does get better, though (I want to say when they move out, but I’m not going to).
Well, I was going to give you a ‘Just wait!’, but it was more along the lines of “Just wait until he has a child exactly like himself, and you can sit back and giggle at HIS barely contained frustration!” I hope that’s the good kind of ‘Just wait!’
Oooh, the Just Wait people. Oh, I loathe those people. “Just wait until the baby comes” they would tell gigantically pregnant me with my one year old in tow “You may never sleep again!” And although that might be TRUE, there is no need to actually put the cart ahead of the horse, so to speak.
A signed note!?! I wish I was a fly on the wall for that request.
Yes, he should definitely be a lawyer. He will grow up to be my husband, which means he will be the type of man to notice every little detail (good for noticing new haircuts) and do a good job at work.
But he may also drive his future wife completely insane because he is never wrong. :) (Speaking hypothetically, naturally.)
I just sent this post to my parents with an apology, since I TOTALLY had this exact fight with them many years ago. Uhhh, on several occasions. One involved my mom getting so frustrated that she RIPPED UP MY HOMEWORK, threw it in the trash, and said I was free to explain to my teacher what happened. So you handled it well :)
I will now say something controversial: I don’t mind the “just wait” people. I mean, if they’re being too condescending, sure, that’s annoying. BUT! there are things about parenting that I would have liked to have the “heads up” on before they crossed my path. For instance, the cost of pre-school. We’re going into the final year of preschool, the pre-K year, and I had NO IDEA it would cost, monthly, an arm and a leg. I would have liked to know that. There are other examples of unsavory things I would have liked to be prepared for, but that at the top of the list, currently.
Oh man the Just Waiters never fail to ENRAGE me. My sisters actually do it all the time– “You don’t know what ‘tired’ is, just wait till you have kids!” There seems to be this idea floating around that because I don’t have children yet I have NO IDEA what being tired, or being frustrated, or dealing with something gross might be like.
Beth- Oh, definitely, but I think those are in a different category than “Just wait”ers. “Just wait”ers have their own TONE; it isn’t just the content. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a “Just wait”er say what the price of preschool is, for example. What they’d do is wait until you were fretting about the price of diapers (which is a totally legitimate thing to fret about) and then instead of empathizing, they’d say to you, “Oh, you think DIAPERS are expensive? Just wait until PRESCHOOL.” Which is totally different than saying, in another conversation and not connected to your unconnected fret, “Oh, man, preschool is so expensive: at ours, it’s $3000 a year.”
I know that you are truly in anguish over this but I have to say that you are one of the funniest writers I’ve ever read. I love your way with words! It seems so wrong to laugh at your pain but you are just so funny. Oh, and I completely get where you are coming from. My 2nd (of 4) is just like your son.
Yes, Swistle, I totally get that. It is the intent of the comment, for sure. Still, if while fretting about the cost of diapers, a parent with a preschooler would have said “oh, yeah, diapers ARE expensive; kids are a big expense-wait till you get to preschool.” i might also appreciate that, since i may or may not have considered that before, you know? it would be like a little (well intentioned, non snarky) warning. it’s all about the tone/intent.
this is true of parenting-related comments in general. some comments are non-offensive, or even HELPFUL if they are conveyed in the proper manner, where as the same comment can be super irritating if the tone is condescending.
Beth- Sure! I’d just say that in that case, they’re not “Just wait”ers, even though they have used the words “Just wait.”
Once, when I was twelve, my mother caught me in a lie. It was a trivial lie, something I said I had done but hadn’t…I can’t even remember what specifically. What I do remember is spending HOURS arguing with my mother about it, trying desperately to convince her I hadn’t lied. I would storm into my room, and cry for awhile, before coming out and telling her in a wounded little voice that she had hurt my feelings, and in fact SHE was in the wrong for accusing me, and not BELIEVING in me, her CHILD! which would start things up again and honestly I don’t know how she didn’t slap me.
The thing is, The whole time I knew I was wrong. I even knew that I was behaving appallingly. But I was also just furious that I had been caught, and I felt incapable of just giving up the ghost and accepting my punishment. In short, I was being a total shit.
Fortunately for me, my mom isn’t the type to hold a grudge, and by the next day we were back to normal, or rather, she was. I stewed about it for weeks, getting myself worked up about how my mom never believed in me. But underneath my righteous indignation I was, well, pretty embarrassed. But don’t worry, I didn’t once apologize or anything.
I tell you this story because I’m painfully verbose. And because maybe, just maybe, underneath his smugness, Rob knows. In the way that all of us know when we’re being awful, despite what we tell ourselves, and everyone else.
Also, I was a ridiculously easy teenager.
I feel like crying in sympathy with you, and am in awe of Paul’s patience. Which probably accomplished a great deal because it didn’t give Rob the added ammunition of “getting yelled at” for not doing his math “the New Way.” I loved your fantasy disciplinary measures.
I guess Just Wait people like to point out that they’ve been through worse than whatever you’re going through at the moment.
— Mairzy
I too am in awe of the patience and also cringing in horror at what (not that you’ve said it!) awaits me in 8 years when my oldest is Rob’s age. Seems like my N has a very similar personality when he’s at his most…challenging. I’m always sad when people ONLY see this..challenging side.
Quick ! write something to redeem Rob in the eyes of your readers! What’s great about him!
They want to LORD it over you that THEY have been there and, despite the fact that you have five kids and you might think you’ve learned anything, you actually know NOTHING compared to THEM. Ugh, how I hate them.
I was babysitting for my nephew one time when he was about 12 and he made furious when he wrote ‘teached’ for the past tense of ‘teach’ on an assignment. I told him it was ‘taught’ and he told me NO it was NOT. His TEACHER told him that it was TEACHED. We went round and round and I told him, fine, leave it like that so he did and I signed it as his caregiver or whatever the hell. Of course, it came back and my brother got it and he called me and said what the hell? Why did you let him do that? And I said because your kid was being an asshole, you’re lucky I didn’t write THAT beneath my signature. Ooh I was fuming and it was years ago so I guess I still am. Anyways. I’m sorry, I can imagine (and only imagine, I am JUST WAITING until my kids are that old) how frustrating it is.
So incredibly frustrating!
I would contact Rob’s teacher and explain the whole evening. I think that it can be done in a way that isn’t defensive. I would explain the time spent, the methods used, Rob’s inability to understand, right down to the response the day after. I would come up with a plan for future homework issues (because you know it will happen again!). Parents and teachers need to be on the same page when it comes to homework, but I think this is more important than homework. Rob manipulated his teacher and got away with it, along with putting you and Paul at odds with his teacher.
The work is Rob’s responsibility, not yours. I think I would say to his teachers that you have tried to get Rob to follow the instructions, but it is causing an issue in your family, so all work will be done by Rob, without input from you.
I used to be a teacher – teachers make the worst parents ;-)
I agree with Brenna, we should start a new Just Wait trend.
Just wait, hugely pregnant ladies, someday that baby will sit on your lap instead of your bladder and she’ll tell you you’re the “best mommy in the whole world forever.”
Just wait, parents of toddlers, someday your child WILL remember to use his words and he’ll solve the problem himself!
My kids are 2 and 5 so I don’t know what the awesome things are for parents of older kids but I look forward to finding out :)
Mar- Good idea! He loves babies and will voluntarily play with Henry. He’s naturally helpful and will ask if I need help or if he can help. He carries things in from the car without being asked—and if he wasn’t on the outing but just notices me coming home, he’ll come running out and start helping. He takes the tray to the trash at fast food places. He holds the door for me, and for strangers. We saw his teacher at the grocery store, and he went bounding over to say hello to her.
There. I feel a little better.
“Do they want us to give up on this whole child-rearing endeavor, and leave home and/or kick the children out so we won’t have to deal with the horrors that await us?” Hilarious. Yes, I wonder what is meant as well, but I am also practicing being an active listener these days so it’s kind of helpful to me too.
I get fed up with the backchat, and anyway it’s not my homework, so I am inclined to let my children go to hell in their own way after one “The assignment says Y.” Then I get e-mails about how a child didn’t do X. O rly? Well, you’re in charge of grades. Give him a bad one.
I love your exasperated posts b/c it’s usually EXACTLY how I do/would feel in the same situation. It makes me feel less like I’m insane b/c I can think “SEE! OTHER PEOPLE!! DO IT TOO!!” I admire you, so it’s cool to have this in common. Weird, I know.
I was totally like Rob. At some point it hit me that I was a moron and I learned to keep my mouth closed. So– not a “just wait” but a “it WILL get better!”
Oh gosh, I know that frustrated to tears by a child feeling so well. What’s funny is I always KNEW teenagerhood would be full of sneakyness and trickery, but it never occurred to me that the life of, say, an EIGHT YEAR OLD would be, too. I don’t wanna hear the “just wait” people because I KNOW! it will get worse! but MEANWHILE this whole situation right here right now? IS EFFED. And no one told me to “just wait” for this. Thereby invalidating the whole stupid “just wait” premise. Right?
Thank you for, ah, providing a forum for grumping about this, intentionally or, uh, not…
This comment has been removed by the author.
OK, I SWEAR I was at your review blog and clicked to comment THERE and instead somehow commented HERE. That hardly seems possible, though, so I shall assume user error and go try again.
Oh man, oh man, oh MAN. I am with you 100% of the way, Swistle, that has ME fuming and just OH MAN. That is a prime example of why I *do* dread the teenage years and I’m also with you on the “just wait” comments because NOT HELPFUL. (Very similar to the “enjoy him! They grow so fast!” comments I got from EVERYONE the ENTIRE FIRST 6 MONTHS OF MY SON’S LIFE. Holy cats, people! I get it! You saying it doesn’t help, it makes me more wistful and anxious that I’m not SOAKING UP EVERY BLISSFUL MINUTE and just stop it.)
I am taking copious mental notes on how you and Paul handle these types of things because I feel like I just will NOT do those years well. I am in awe of Paul’s patience and your resistance from stick-beating.
I’m sorry, I have nothing productive to say. I just keep thinking “OH MAN”.
But just wait! It does get better. Or so I hear. ;-)
I cried with frustration just today because I could not legally beat my 18-year-old son with a stick. Not a just wait, but a commiseration. ~Laura
Excellent, excellent point at the end! I agree 1000%. Just, excellent.
I’m a crier, too. Frustrated? Cry. Mad? Cry. Sad? Cry a lot. It’s so awful sometimes.
When someone tells me to Just Wait, I feel like cramming the words right back into her mouth. I can almost see the words wadded into a ball in my fist as I smile and nod.
I homeschool my children now, but I really hated the worksheets with the new math. That wasn’t your point at all, but I just had to say it. I love math and felt like I was missing an old friend.
I have an arguer. He is a different kind of arguer than yours, but an arguer nonetheless. So very frustrating.
my 11 yr old son is never wrong either… maybe if we got them together they could make each others heads explode with their rightness..
I am not going to say just wait. I am going to nod sympathetically, and say, yeah, that there? That’s what it’s going to be like for awhile now. Sorry about that. You’re there. On the bright side, they do remain very interesting and sometimes pleasant companions, and in about five years they get a lot better. I have one coming to the end of that phase, and another one just getting going. And a third who’s 21 and well out of it and reminds me that it’s all worth it if you can just not kill them.
I totally agree with Kylie so much that I’m going to quote her so everyone can read it twice:
The work is Rob’s responsibility, not yours. I think I would say to his teachers that you have tried to get Rob to follow the instructions, but it is causing an issue in your family, so all work will be done by Rob, without input from you.
YES! That!
We could really use someone with Paul’s patience around here. Homer just gives up, I persist in a huff. The infuriating kid responds indifferently to both reactions.
Oh my goodness, I LOVE the last two paragraphs. I also connot stand the “Just wait” thing. It does not help. I understand that it is a misery loves company thing, but I don’t want to be in that company!!
First of all, SO FRUSTRATING! And I was just telling my husband yesterday how the “Just Wait” people are sooooo annoying. Just wait until you have a 4 and 2 1/2 year old (versus my current 2 1/2 and 2 year old), does that make the screaming fit I just spent 45 minutes listening too any better? I am talking about RIGHT NOW, and you are right, I will eventually have a 4 year old, 2 1/2 year old (and then a 1 year old, as we are expecting. Again.) I get it, your kids are older than mine/you have more experience, whatever. There is no way I can prevent my children from eventually becoming those ages and apparently sucking the will to live out of me (according to those who say I should Just Wait) let me complain in peace!
I’m with Kathy and Kylie, too. Better to disengage. As a previous commenter suggested, he probably “knows” that he’s wrong but can’t find a way out without losing face. There’s really no point in belaboring his wrongness. Offer some input/feedback and leave it to him to accept or not (and this is the hard part…) without taking it personally when he rejects your advice. Maybe you and the teacher can come to an arrangement where you just initial his homework to indicate that you are aware of it but that is the And while I’m guessing that he’s a lot less infuriating about it at school, I’m sure that his teacher is quite aware of this disposition.
As for the just-you-waiters, UGH! Sadly, I’m just-you-waiting myself. My second hit the terrible two’s fiercely at 18 months and I remember it ramping up all the way to about 3.5 years with my first.
I’ve also read the Good Points post, which is lovely. I’m sure you’re (usually) rightfully delighted to have him for your son.
well, I think this is partly an oldest child thing. When I forgot to bring his water, he flipped out asking WHY WHY? (He’s 3) and I said, “I made a mistake, everyone makes mistakes. Only God is perfect.” And he patiently explained to me that God made him perfect, he is like God and he doesn’t make mistakes.
Can’t wait to see how that manifests itself at 12!!!
My child is seven and already behaves this way. It will just get worse, right? Oy.
(And yes I read your next post, and yes she has plenty of good qualities…)