Right after I wrote about the watch this morning, I decided I MUST BUY IT and I went rushing off to Target. The watch was gone. Then I came home and read the comments, and I am NOT AT ALL bothered that almost everyone dislikes the pretty, pretty watch, and this definitely does NOT feed into my anxious fantasies that if we were to meet in person you’d be all, “OMG, she is a FASHION DISASTER! I expected so much more from her carefully-posed-and-angled publicity shots in which she has done her hair and is NOT wearing an orange watch!”
(Maybe the watch is cuter in person?)
Anyway, I have a new quandary. Rob wants to join Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts or whatever. I asked him why he wants to join, and he said he wants to toast marshmallows and learn to survive in the wilderness, and I was thinking maybe Cub Scouts would not be ONLY that.
Also, it seems to me that in our area, such groups are High! Parental! Participation! Pressure! and I am NOT INTERESTED AT ALL.
So here is what I am wondering:
1. What is a typical Cub Scouts meeting like? Toasting marshmallows the whole time?
2. Is there indeed an expectation of parental participation, with grousing from the other parents about how “It’s always the same parents who help and the same ones who don’t”—as if the other parents could not possibly be spending their time helping with other things the scout parents aren’t interested in (and grousing “It’s always the same parents who help and the same ones who don’t”)?
3. Do you know any Cub Scouts or former Cub Scouts, and if so, tell me everything you know, from uniform prices to badges to how often the meetings are to what the WHOLE CONCEPT of Cub Scouts is.
There are always parents that don’t participate. Accept that you will be that parent (your hands are full) and work on getting comfertable with it so that your son can enjoy the scouts – plus you can always pawn the parental particiaption off on to your husband ;)
I was in Girl Scouts for 8 years and it was usually towards the end of the year we did the toasting marshmallows stuff. The rest of the meetings were little assignments, projects, etc. to earn badges. We had 2 main leaders that were at all of the meetings and once in a blue moon if we went on a trip or it was a difficult task another mom or two would step in- other than that there was no other parental involvement.
My brother was in Cub Scouts a few years and I remember my dad taking him to every meeting. They were more hands on doing that racing car thing, camping trips, etc.
While working at the craft store we had tons of scout reservations to come in and it was mainly leaders. Once in awhile other parents would stay but you could kind of see from body language and stuff it was the clingy kids’ parents and the leaders didn’t really NEED them there- they just chose to be included.
Also (wow this is really long, huh?) my younger cousin lived with us for a year and he was in boy scouts. I took him to his meetings, but it was the most ridiculous crap I’d ever encountered. The leader basically used it as an hour to drill his personal beliefs, agenda, and political nonsense into the kids’ brains. There was no involvement, no tasks, no activities. Basically a bitter man talking for an hour to impressionable young minds. He went to only 2 or 3 meetings until I realized that’s all it was giong to be and we pulled him out.
In the old days it used to be all about uniforms, but I rarely (if ever) have seen a uniform on a scout in my recent involvements.
i was a brownie, and then a girl scout, 25 years ago. my mother was minimally involved to not involved at all. i loved it. i loved the uniform, i loved earning the badges, i loved sawing them on, and i loved toasting the marshmallows.
i don’t know what it’s like today, but if it’s like christina above says when she talks about her young cousin’s experience, it sounds like an awful experience.
This might not be an issue for you but I will struggle if my son ever wants to join the boy scouts because of their anti-gay, anti-atheist policies. I’m sure many troops don’t ever bring it up and it wouldn’t impact your son’s experience at all. But I live in CA and we have lots of politically correct guilt.
And I like the watch, so perhaps my judgment is suspect as well!
Lauren- YES. Definitely issues for me. I’m hoping lots of people will be able to give reports of whether those two things enter into the Scouting Experience or not. I’m not even sure I want my non-religious child vowing at each meeting to do his duty to God.
I am married to an honest-to-god Eagle Scout, meaning he went all through the Cub/Boy Scout spectrum.
Anyway, he says, “I would say it’s 95 percent NOT toasting marshmallows.” He doesn’t really remember what they did do. He thinks they went on maybe one camping trip a year. He made crafts — balsa wood racecars. “And then, there’s a boat thing, similar, and then there might be a glider. Yeah, there’s a glider, too.” (This is rather funny, listening to him reminisce.) Mainly, the husband says, it’s just playing games. Boy Scouts is where you learn to survive in the wilderness, he thinks.
His parents were very involved, but there’s only really one or two leaders per group, he said. And, I will tell you, his mother is CRAZY and has always been way more involved than necessary in her kids’ lives.
The husband’s final word on Cub Scouts: It’s lame, but it’s way cooler than Indian Guides. (Whatever that is, I add.)
OK, I was totally afraid of scouts before we started – the whole religious, conservative thing is entirely not me – especially the anti-gay thing. But a very kind, lesbian scout leader talked me into giving it a try – I figured if she could do it so could I.
I am so glad I did. I know some people have talked about the bad stuff, the agenda, etc – it has been a great thing for my son, who has now been in for almost 7 years and is well on his way to eagle scout.
There can be boring stuff, there will be some people that do nothing and only come to the “fun” stuff, there will be jackass dads that think the pinewood derby is for THEM.
But there is also a lot of fun, and a lot of opportunities to camp and travel and learn. We absolutely love it. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.
First of all Hillary’s rendition is spot on for what my brownie experience was. Pretty much totally lame (though I loved it at the time) with one camping trip a year. I probably should have paid more attention when they were trying to teach us to sew buttons, and cook and stuff. Imagine if your son learned awesome life skills there? Maybe they teach boys to sew buttons in this day and age, who knows.
Overall I think it’s harmless and probably it more comes down to the individual troop in question.
I know in Canada usually everyone drops out by highschool and so the few, the proud that have stuck it out get yooj scholarships from Scouting Canada or something.
And also, if you stick out the lame stuff as a kid the trips get way more exciting too.
In summation, if he’s into it and your troop isn’t anti gay go for it.
I liked the watch. I’m sad it was gone. :(
My husband was a Boy Scout well up into high school or almost high school age (NERD! He also likes Star Wars, in case you hadn’t guessed that yet.)
Perks as far as I can tell: He can read maps. Like, really well. Which is unbelieveably handy whilst on vacations.
He also keeps a snake bite kit in the bathroom. You know, just in case.
Cub/Boy Scouts are huge where we live and my son has done it for two years now. He has a weekly meeting where I drop him off or one of his leaders pickup him up. Once a month they have a pack meeting where the whole family is invited and they do a flag ceremony, hand out awards, an activity and a snack. I usually attend with just my son that is in scouts and let my husband watch the younger kids at home. It’s not worth the headache to chase them around while my oldest tries to participate. They do have references God in the pledge. The leaders try to pass of as many requirements as they can during the weekly meetings. My husband and I spend some time helping him complete requirements to earn his badges. Nothing to horrible, things like make a chore chart for your family and follow it for a month or visit a museum. The great thing is they get badges for every thing so they always come away with a sense of accomplishment. Every leader that I have come across will make it a point to help a boy with his badges if the parents aren’t involved. They have a big emphasis on family, honesty and integrity. Things that I feel are good for them to learn. As far as cost, we bought the shirt, belt neckerchief thing and book when he started. Each year as they move to a new group you have to buy a new neckerchief and book. It’s not too horrible. In our area the church group that sponsors the packs pays a lot of the expenses so you might want to check into what your local group does. Sorry this is so long. :) We love the program and think it teaches kids valuable lessons. As I said before they do talk about God in the pledge. We have never heard anything anti-gay said by anyone at any activity we have been to. I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
The anti -gay thing is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn’t want to participate in any way with, or have my son a member of, an establishment that excludes gay members as a policy.
I liked the orange watch, though.
There is a huge difference between the Girls Scouts and the Boy Scouts. Not necessarily in the activities (which depend a lot on the local troop leaders) but at the national leadership level. And unfortunately for our son, who would like to participate, the anti-gay thing is also a deal-breaker for me.
I’m sure it doesn’t come up at our local meetings but this is an organization that devoted thousands of dollars and an entire decade to prove their right to exclude gay people, not just because they don’t like gay people, but because as an organization, they don’t believe that gay people can be good role models. And I’m sorry, I apologize to all the scouts I know, but I can’t join an organization that does that, and I can’t let my son join, either.
All that having been said, two of my neighbors’ sons are in Cub Scouts, and they have weekly meetings, at which they do various badge-earning activities, some of which are more elaborate than others. Some of the parents are very involved, some of them are not involved at all, and I bet, if you are up-front with the leaders about what you can give, they will be fine with it. The camping stuff mostly seems to happen here in the fall.
It’s true that there are not a lot of good alternatives to Cub Scouts for getting kids together to do the badge-related activities. I really, REALLY wish that there were.
The anti-gay/anti-atheist policies immediately rule them out as anyone I would want having influence on my children. There’s an entire chapter of Parenting Beyond Belief detailing one particular family’s troubles in that area. What if your child spends loads of time bonding and learning as a boy scout and eventually determines that he’s gay? They shun him? Tell him to hit the road? I just can’t sign up for those morals being taught to my children. Word is that there are some groups that are better than others. Do your research if this is something you want to pursue.
My husband is also an Eagle Scout, and he says that he was never taught that their creed is meant to exclude anyone, but obviously that will depend on your pack and the leaders, and also it will have to be your personal decision.
He remembers that they had the weekly (or maybe biweekly) meetings with their “dens” (small groups of boys in the same age group, like 5 or 6 boys per den), and once a month they would get together with the entire “pack” which is the whole age group together.
He said they mostly worked on things to either advance their rank (even within Cub scouts there are apparently different rankings depending on what year in school you are in), or on merit badges. They also did some field trips, but didn’t really do any overnight camping until Boy scouts, when they were older. As far as parental involvement, it sounds like it was only as much as the parents wanted to commit. He said his dad came to a couple things, but not a lot, and his mom picked him up and dropped him off, but that’s pretty much it unless he was getting an award.
I will say that he has had some awesome opportunities through the Boy Scouts. He went on a 2 week backpacking trip to New Mexico when he was older (in high school), and he says that was totally worth any of the other parts that weren’t as exciting. Also, he can definitely start and keep a fire going, and set up a tent like a pro. ;-)
My personal suggestion would be to go to a couple meetings to check it out. It is a time commitment for either you or the hubby at first, but you should get a good feeling about how the leader runs things from just a couple meetings, and then you can make your final decision. If you can’t go to meetings, see if you can talk to some of the other parents of scouts and see what they have to say.
Well here is what I know, which admittedly is not much. My cousin’s partner is an Eagle Scout (former? I don’t know how that works) and is a leader currently. He is in his mid 30s or so, super smart. He and my cousin have in the past gone round and round about the anti-gay issue with the Scouts but essentially, the way I understand it, is it kinda like the military’s don’t ask, don’t tell in practice. Just meeting my cousin’s partner, I’m not sure you would “know” he was gay but you might suspect. I’m not sure how he personally gets over that issue as I don’t think I could. Also, regarding the parental participation, I also understand it depends on the age of the child somewhat. It seems to me that the leaders have more involvement than a parent would.
I can ask him more specific questions if you want though…we are very close. I’m posting this anon just because I don’t want to be responsible for “outing” a Scout leader but just say “hey anon at x time, email me” and I will check back.
I’ve already started worrying about this and my son’s still in kindergarten (too young to join Scouts yet). We have a strong scouting tradition in my family — my dad, my brother,my mom, me, my husband have all been heavily involved — so I’d really like my son to have that experience. And I know experiences vary by troop — our girl scout troop was all about camping and not much else, but that was very different from other troops in the area. But both the anti-gay, pro-religion policies really disturb me. Well, I have another couple of years to stew about it… maybe someone will invent an alternative by then.
(I don’t comment much, but I’ve really been enjoying the cleaning posts — it’s helping me get motivated to do my own house!)
I will not allow my child to join an organization that went all the way to the supreme court to insist upon their legal right to exclude gay people. Even if the local troop is one big gay party it doesn’t change the reality of the position of the national organization and that is not OK with me. Of course, I’m also an atheist who thinks kids should stay in school and study hard so my judgment is probably off.
my sons been in scouting since the first grade, he’s in the 4th grade now. no one has brought up anything about any ‘gay’ or ‘anti-gay’ agenda. it is a non-issue. my son goes to play with his friends. the meetings are as lame as the people running them. if you want to get involved you do, if not, you don’t. as i am as liberal as they come i don’t feel my son is being indoctrinated into a conservative life style. let him join if he wants to. some of the stuff is fun (the summer day camp) and some is boring but if they want to join why stop them?
One of the previous commenters pretty much hit on what I was going to say – visit your local troops and talk to the leadership. The key to remember is BSA is a private organization founded partly on the principles of Christianity but without ‘churchy’ practices- aka good, solid principles that every kid should learn such as loyalty, honesty, trustworthiness, etc. They don’t teach “anti” anything – they aren’t a hate group as some people seem to make them sound, they don’t preach God & Jesus & homophobic messages or anything like that. Some troops in more conservative parts of the country may not allow a gay adult to be a leader, but you don’t run into it much anymore… the actual wording from the Scout Oath says ‘morally straight’ and to most people that means ‘straight as in true’ not ‘anti-homosexual’ but there will always be backwards folks that interpret that as they choose. BSA is actually quite open-minded, teaching and practicing love for others, respecting other beliefs, and The Golden Rule. My Eagle Scout hubby says you can find the Cub Scout Manual and Boy Scouts Manual at the public library, and he recommends checking them out.
That said, I used to work for Camp Fire Boys & Girls, and bit more ‘liberal’ kids club. They don’t teach survival skills, knot-tying, fire-building, or anything like that, but they do good community service projects and offer great camps and classes to kids. You might look into that as well, but again it’s not about the outdoorsy stuff so much.
Shoot me an email if you want to ask hubby anything about BSA, he’s willing to share all he knows!
I think the scout experience varies widely depending on your community. There are always parents who are very involved, and parents who are not at all involved. It’s totally up to you, and the leaders SHOULD understand that. Your son may love it and get something out of it beyond the marshmallows. Maybe he’ll love the camping/hiking thing. If so, and one day he writes his memoirs he can call the book “Beyond the Marshmallows”, but only if he dedicates it to me.
i have zero info on boyscouts or cubscouts, so i’ll just say this: although i lobbied against the watch, i swear to you if i saw you in person a) i’d be so overwhelmed by meeting a Popular Blogger you could likely be wearing a flower pot on your head and i’d be all WOW SWISTLE IS SO FASHION FORWARD!! and b) generally when i see someone else wearing something specifically like that watch, where i can’t read it? my general conclusion is that they’re inherently cooler than i am because they’re fashionable enough to know how to read some crazy-ass watch face that only fashionable people got the instructions on.
I have three brothers who are Eagle Scouts, and one of those is also Order of the Arrow. (OotA means that with only a knife, you survived all by your self in the woods for I think 48 hours.) Cub Scouts are really an intro for Boy Scouts. I’m fairly sure that they learn some basics, but the real stuff doesn’t come until Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts do things like day camp and the Pinewood Derby and there are levels to earn. I think the main difference between the Boy Scout and the Girl Scout programs is that the Boy Scouts actually have overall goals to work toward. Girl Scouts don’t. And yes, I was a Girl Scout. Seemed mainly to earn pointless badges and sell cookies. I learned lots more in the Young Women program at church than I ever learned in Girl Scouts. (Yes, I can start a fire. And set up a tent. And sharpen a knife correctly, tie lots of knots, make things by lashing (Including about five kinds of shelters)… all of which I learned in the YW program.)
Through Boy Scouts, a boy can get red cross certified in first aid and such, become a life guard, learn useful things like how to read maps… My brothers can do lots of stuff that they learned in scouts that I have no clue how to do. It does depend on the scoutmaster or denmother, and you may have to switch packs/troops. My older brother is ADD and dyslexic and a bit backwards socially, and due to a prejudicial scoutmaster, had to earn one rank twice. My parents pulled him out of that troop and put him in a different one.
Just remember, it is ultimately up to you to teach your child what you want them to know. I’m talking moral values here. I mean, part of the problems we have today in society are because so many, and I’m not saying it’s you, Swistle, are depending on schools and other organizations to raise their kids. /soapbox
As for parental involvement, well, the most that you’ll need to do, other than getting you little boy there, is to sew his patches on his shirt. And later on, when things like scout camp and cub scout day camp come up, the cost increases because of those. For the most part, it’s just the uniform bits. My brothers, all of them, loved scouting. It’s not a perfect program, but what is? None of them were preached at, no anti-gay agenda was pushed at them, and no religion was pushed.
I, too, am married to an honest-to-goodness Eagle Scout… who went on to work for them as a professional after college.
Boy Scouts are a good group for boys to be involved in- they teach skills like map reading and first aid and survival, etc. Hubby is always ready for any situation and is especially handy in an emergency- I really do thank his scouting background for that. They even do some cooking, too!
Scouting is what you make of it, though. If you (or your son) puts a lot of time and effort in, he’ll get a lot out of it. If you don’t support him in scouting, he won’t gain nearly as much.
Definitely worth a shot.
My son just joined and we had the first meeting last week so I guess I’m not the best person to answer this question for you.
But, since he is in 1st grade it is required that a parent be present at the meetings. I think this is the rule from 1st – 3rd grade.
We are excited about Scouts. My husband made it all the way through Eagle Scouts and actually worked several summers as a camp counselor at a large Boy Scout camp.
My husband will be taking him to the meetings and to the camping trips and other activities and I’ll be taking my daughter to Girl Scouts. She is joining Daisy’s this year.
My son is sooooo excited. He wants to camp, shoot guns, bows and arrows, make a car for the derby races, etc.
Good luck deciding what to do!
I always use my youngest child(ren) as my I-can’t-participate-at-that-high-level-of-commitment-but-I’d-be-happy-to-send-in-something excuse.
Every program is different. You can check in with the council office and they should be able to provide you with an agenda for the year. That way you know exactly what you are getting into program wise. As far as God, Gays etc, the organization has received so much backlash from these issues that even though they may have “policies” you will never hear of them.
I was a girl scout forever and we learned all of the skills mentioned, map reading, knife skills, rope tying etc. These days there is so much focus on self esteem and feeling empowered that these “survival” skills are often put aside for feel good activities.
Poke around. Find an old fashioned troop that will let him burn and carve stuff. He’ll be thrilled.
So, I can’t give the parental how much it costs perspective, but I do know that my brother loved it and my parents participated very little, if at all. However, his best friends’ father participated a lot (there were 5 in their family too, although his friends, the twins, were the oldest). It’s more of a father/son thing, so if your husband is interested in participating…
There is a lot of other stuff beyond just roasting marshmallows, but they did go to a camp or have a camp out every summer and a lot of the skills were centered on that.
I was a HS English teacher for 10 years and can tell you that the boys who did scouts were some of the most well-adjusted, pleasant kids. And the Eagle Scouts — delightful! Scouting is something I DEFINITELY want my son (11months) to get into when the time comes. I have seen nothing but good come out of scouting.
That said, I have a problem with the anti-gay thing, too — but like a previous commenter, we had a homosexual pack leader in our town, too and it worked out fantastically.
My oldest (now 4th grade) did Cub Scouts in 1st and 2nd.
Note: We live in the Bible Belt. Things may vary wherever you are.
Around here, most packs meet in churches. The entire pack (1st through 12th grade in my son’s case b/c there was both a Cub Scout pack and a Boy Scout pack at that church) meets at the same time, but in different rooms. Once a month, the whole Cub or Boy pack meets together. (I think Cubs was just 1st-5th.)
1st, 2nd, and I think 3rd, a parent has to stay at each meeting, which lasts about an hour. We did lots of interesting stuff, except my son didn’t actually do any of it. After 2 years, I told him we were done because we had not signed up for Cub Scouts so Mommy could learn how to fish and tie knots. Just how much fun stuff Rob will do will vary greatly depending on his leader. My son was lucky enough to have an adult leader who had been an Eagle Scout and really knew what he was doing.
All overnight camping trips (which were available as young as 1st grade, but always optional) required a parent and (I think) your own camping gear.
You can see the list of available badges (or “belt loops”) at the BSA website.
Because we met in a church, we were generally in a Sunday School classroom that was decorated for, well, Sunday School. We also opened large meetings with a prayer. That was about it for the Christian influence.
Under most circumstances, I wouldn’t let my son be a scout, because of the discrimination issue. He happens to have lesbian, atheist moms, which makes it even more pertinent, but I wouldn’t let him join an organization that excluded other minority groups either. I said under most circumstances because rumor has it the cub scout troupe in our town is in defiance of the ban, but I’d need to check it out and find out more. So far he has not had any interest so it’s a moot point.
I understand the Girl Scouts are much more tolerant.
My son is in Cub Scouts–and yes, I am now a Girl Scout leader of TWO troops for each of my girls.
Here the differences are mainly about ORGANIZATION. What we GS leaders who have boys in Cub/Boy Scouts have noticed is that the men in our neck of the woods are incredibly unorganized and the rules/regulations of Girl Scouts are just so much more strict than those “whatever” Boy Scouts.
In the first year of Cub Scouts, a parent/adult is required to bring the boy to EVERY meeting. We usually have one den meeting a month, one pack meeting, and then we try to do one field trip. But it’s not always that full of a month–sometimes schedules don’t coincide, and we only end up meeting once a month. ALSO, here the den takes turns having meetings at the boys’ houses! Yes, you get a turn to host a meeting!
Except for the disorganization (leading to somewhat chaotic weeks where meetings/field trips were announced with less than 24 hrs notice!), we had a pretty good experience with Cub Scouts, and my son is eager to be in it again. No, toasting marshmallows does not happen every meeting, but the boys enjoyed the other activities/badges they did.
I helped out my son’s den quite a bit. As a GS leader, I couldn’t handle all the disorganization of those poor, over-worked fathers who were trying their best to throw stuff together. However, there was no huge pressure on any parent to do more than they could handle.
I understand folks being upset about the anti-gay thing, but I chose to see what it was like for myself. In our den there was no agenda and no one is made to feel unwelcome. IF I ever got the feeling that ANY anti-gay agenda ever showed up, I’d pull my son out immediately. And God only makes an appearance in the pledge.
I have a feeling that, like with everything else, it all depends on the program you’re in and who’s running it. I think we’ve got a pretty good program here.
My dad was scoutmaster for my little brothers cub scouts. he and my mom did most of the work because they signed up to lead the troop but parent help was always welcome. some parents were always there, others would help with special occassions, etc.
as for uniforms, etc, they’re not necessary. Most just prefer the shirt and neckerchief anyway. we lived in a very poor area and my mom worked hard on ebay and in thrift stores to ensure every little boy had a shirt/neckerchief to wear. so I’m sure you can check ebay, online, etc and get rob one for nothing.
i think scouts are good for kids too! I was a girl scout and loved it.
My brother was a Cub/Boy Scout and an Indian Guide. It was pretty much a father/son thing with my mom making troop/pack whatever they call it treats on the assigned week. I remember we all had to go when he moved from Cub Scout to Boy Scout and it was a really odd ceremony – like they held the boys upsidedown by their ankles or some nonsense. All very “Skull & Crossbones”.
Anyway, my bro loved it and earned all sorts of badges and even learned to sew for one of them.
I was a Girl Scout (Brownie & Junior) and also worked for the GS Council as an adult and will say each troop can be lame or very involved – it all depends on the leader and the involvement of the Council. So – ask around and see if there are any troops/packs that are into the stuff Rob wants to do and look into joining.
Oh yes. What you do is you buy the shirt in the biggest size that won’t dwarf the kid to ridiculousness–and then you only have to change hats/necerchiefs every year (grades 1-3 where the same blue shirt). Our den provides the neckerchief and the book. Hats are $14 here. And yes, there is always ebay!
It’s an excellent program to develop your young man. The best part? Usually it’s the dads who do the leading. :)
I’d definitely let him do it.
My little guy did Beavers last year… it wasn’t really his thing. He described it sullenly as “games and crafts and songs”, where others would be all “GAMES! AND CRAFTS! AND SONGS!” The only thing we did was stand with him when he had to hock apples (excruciating).
His pledge was to “my country and my faith”
I was a brownie, when I was in catholic school, so the god thing kind of fell right in there. It was lame, but my mother was the assistant leader, so I was there regardless.
I was unaware of the anti-gay vibe with scouts. hmmm. Hub was a boy scout, and has been talking about signing Bud up.
I was never a brownie or a girl scout. We had a friend whose kid wanted to join the boy scouts and he didn’t get in because their neighbor was asked about the family. They said they were great, but they are atheists. Therefore he did not get in. I think its horrible this happened. Their child was crushed.
I have nothing to say about Scouts–they seem to do lots of cookouts on Fridays and that’s the extent of my knowledge. As my husband would say, “that’s a little too much nature for Katy.”
I wanted to talk about the watch and how people didn’t like it: ROCK ON! I think there is WAY too much conformity going on in general and if you’re wearing something that other people don’t like than awesome because that means you have individual taste and preferences which is what makes the world interesting. Sorry, I am passionate about my fashion.
See, my eldest wanted to join scouts too, but I just couldn’t participate in an organization who discriminates so heavily. What if my son is gay and I PAID for him to be in an organization that teaches him that he is subhuman? What if we were that family they tossed out and it was all over the media because of their lack of faith?
I just…can’t. I can’t give them time or money or, most importantly, my child.
I was a Girl Scout and my mom was the troop leader and I’ve dreaded revisiting this territory. My child is absolutely horrified at the idea of joining Girl Scouts. I’m all verklempt with the sheer joy of this knowledge.
Run don’t walk. Seriously, run away now. Cub Scouts is nothing like Girl Scouts. It is a nightmare. This, at least, has been my experience. My husband was a scout and loved it. He insisted my son join. And then he went to work! I got stuck doing all the work and trust me, it’s not marshmallow time very often. So think about it long and hard and then bang your head against the wall. If you like that feeling then join, otherwise just RUN AWAY.
Gawd I so relate to your parental participation phobia. My oldest is only 5 and I’m such a commitment-phobe!!
follow your gut.
I would say be willing to do projects and basically homework too, something I don’t have time for. And from my experience your Husbands involvement is more of what Boy Scouts is looking for and there will be plenty of father/ son activities. It mostly depends on the group but it would stink to be the one kids with the parents that are too busy to be involved. And since you have other boys you could get the whining over wanting to do theses cool crafts and activities that big brother is doing. It’s not just about meetings either are outtings and service projects too. I would say it a HUGE commitment for both you and your son.
Weird.The word verification below shas the letters b i t h e s. That is alittle to close to that other word. LOL thats never happen to me before. Naughty Naughty blog needs it’s mouth washed out! hehe
Meh, just get Paul to roast marshmallows with him. It’s so much less hassle. ;-) And if he wants a whole “troup”, just get Paul to take the other boys and head off on an all-boys camp out in the backyard. You and Elizabeth can paint your nails and be girly spa girls while the guys go do their thing.
And if he wants to make a macaroni necklace, I’m sure you can work that out too.
(My word verificaton is “peabia”. I feel like that’s a dirty word, lol).
Uniforms are not cheap. Plus, you usually have to pay pack dues AND sell really expensive popcorn as a fundraiser. The dues and fundraisers usually take care of all the badges & pins and stuff, though and in some packs, it will also pay for Raingutter Regatta boats & Pinewood Derby cars. However, from what you have listed in your “About Me” section, it looks like Rob might be interested in joining the final year of Cub Scouting (AKA “Webelos”) so you really only have to buy the tan shirt that will transition to Boy Scouting. Although you might have to buy all new patches when he does move up. Webelos & Boy Scouting involve significantly less parental involvement, UNLESS you sign up and get trained as a leader. But, usually there are dads in the troop that were Scouts who really enjoy that kind of thing, which means you and your hubby can skip stuff if you are so inclined. Very few moms do much with the Boy Scouts for obvious reasons (not cool to be seen with you mother in middle & high school). My son’s packs & troop (located in VA & GA) have pretty strongly emphasized the “God” part of the oath/pledge, but I don’t think anything has ever been brought up about the homosexuality issue. If you feel strongly about either one, you really should encourage Rob to do something else as an extra-curricular activity. The honoring God part is pretty integral. My son has been in Cub/Boy scouts for 7 years now and my husband was a den leader for a year and the Pack master for his Cub Scout pack for 2 years.
Cub/Boy Scouts and Girl Scouting cannot be compared. They are COMPLETELY different things. My daughter has been in Girl Scouts the same 7 years, with me serving as an assistant or head leader all but 3 of those years. I still attend most of her meetings.
Here’s a thought I haven’t seen mused over: Rob is your oldest, and you have more sons. Anything Rob joins, you need to consider if you are interested in having it become a family thing.
You could greatly reduce your driving kids to activities chores and your parental involvement risks in the coming years by thinking in terms of committing a lot of energy to ONE highly involved activity like scouting. Instead of being involved in multiple classes, teams, etc., you can help your kids explore many sorts of things under the umbrella of Scouting. (That’s the point of the badges, really.) Since you have multiple boys, your parental involvement in the Pack means you are combining a lot of parental involvement risk into one activity. Sure, you might be the parents who do all the work, BUT! everyone knows you can’t do anything else because you do Scouts with ALL your boys.
If Boy Scouts works out, then you and your daughter get to explore Girl Scouts as a seperate project, leaving Paul with all the heavy lifting of Boy Scouting with your crew. Or, get this: girls can join the Boy Scouts. So potentially, you could put all your family activities in one basket from now until your youngest is done with it. Whether this is a good thing or bad is up to you.
(When my brother was old enough for little league, my mom looked at the schedule of multiple games and multiple practices per week, multiplied that in future years x 3 more sons who would never fall into the same age groups and so practice/play in yet more locations. She then promptly registered them all for this newfangled soccer game. Which had 1 practice and 1 game per week, all at the same fields for all age groups. Soccer doesn’t work that way any more, but transferring the whole tribe into this one activity saved her sanity.)
PS: I didn’t do soccer, but my mom was my GScout leader. Thank goodness, our troop was great. My mom and the other mom refused to let it be all about the cookies. We camped at least twice a year, plus a special, harder trip for the oldest girls in the Spring. So, when & if GScouts comes up, even more so that with Boy Scouts you gotta find a troop that fits.
I am the mother of two Eagle scouts, sister of four more, and wife of a scoutmaster, so I feel qualified to chime in here.
First, the anti-gay, anti-atheist thing was huge for me, I was very much opposed to my sons joining an organization like that. My husband decided they were going to do it and over ruled me. This has happened maybe five times in 20 plus years, and when he feels that strongly about something, I shut up and figure out how I can get around it. In this case, I have made very sure that the boys know I don’t support those beliefs, that gay people are the same as everybody else, etc. I have talked about this a LOT.
Cub Scouts is more crafty stuff. My boys did it, but they didn’t like it. Boy Scouts (our troop, at least) is more outdoor oriented. They do a hike or a camping trip every month year round, and meet once a week to work on merit badges together. My boys loved Boy Scouts. They both worked at scout camp for several summers, and I have to say that scouts had a lot to do with making them the responsible, mature young men they are becoming.
If you go to a group meeting and it turns out to be awful, try another troop. Some are closely affiliated with a particular religion and require their kids to practice that faith. Ours is sponsored by a Catholic church, but is not particularly religious, except for a “quiet reflection time” when they’re camping on Sunday morning.
Girl Scouts are a different organization and do not discriminate. Another alternative is Camp Fire. My daughter and I have been very involved in Camp Fire — they do not discriminate against anyone, they take both boys and girls, and because the parents direct the group you can do whatever you like. We tend to like the outdoor hiking and camping things — another group in our school is much more into the crafty things.
As far as parental involvement, my husband and his adult volunteers welcome it, but take the kids anyway. They just like to go hiking and camping, and want to teach kids how much fun it is. You can do as much or as little as you like, as long as your troop has strong leadership, and no one thinks less of you if you’re not as interested.
Sorry for going on!
My husband grew up in scouting and loved it. But we have a fairly major ideological problem with the organization as part of their philosophy includes that homosexuality is morally wrong. We find that extremely offensive and despite the fact that it is not the focus of the group, I just don’t know that I would be willing to send my son to a group that includes that kind of blatant prejudice in their belief system. Just thought I’d point that out as I only discovered this recently. Obviously there are many wonderful things that scouting has to offer as well. I just think it’s important to know. Especially recognizing that a certain percent of their members will turn out to be gay and that kind of discrimination seems very hateful to me.
I cannot support a club that is anti-gay. I don’t care if they never bring it up, it is still one of their values. Would you support the group if they didn’t allow black men to be leaders? I know it isn’t the same type of discrimination, but it is hurtful and wrong. I am super anti-boy scouts and won’t even buy their popcorn or other items they sell. *grumble grumble*
I think that for the mothers that said they wouldn’t allow their sons who wanted to join the Scouts to join, you are doing them a great disservice. You are allowing your personal distaste and political dissension from their leadership to deprive a fun, socially imperative (in some areas) and morall formative program that has helped so many successful men across this country grow into the well adjusted adults that they have become.
I was a member of the BSA and I have no regrets and believe it helped me to become a man.
For whatever its worth please consider enrolling your son if he is interested.
The gays and God thing is something I have struggled with quite a bit as I have been working through the decision whether or not to enroll my little boy in cub scouts. For now, I have opted to sign him up in spite of the fact that I am fairly close to being an atheist (certainly not religious) and have friends I know won’t be happy with me because of the anti-gay policies–which I know will be completely ignored in my community as they are in many others. The reason I ended up signing him up was that I was a scout when I was a kid and I can’t think of any organization that gave me more in terms of good values, self-confidence, self-reliance, a love of the outdoors, and so much more. I loved scouts and it upsets me that there are certain things about the organization that do not align with my beliefs and values, but I know what scouts has to offer in spite of this (a LOT) and I feel that if progressive-minded people abandon scouting, it will truly devolve into the right-wing religious neo-nazi training camp some fear it already is. The BSA’s deeply flawed tenets are inexcusable, but I think they will change eventually if we don’t give up scouting to those who would push the organization away from its deeper underlying values: helping others, treating everyone with respect and compassion, self-reliance, and a love of nature. That’s my two cents anyway.